Hefeweizen: how to mash wheat and barley separately?

[ebbelwoi]

I make hefeweizens quite often, and I like to save the spent wheat. I put it on my granola every morning -- it dilutes the sugary taste, and provides a lot of fiber.

I'm still trying to figure out the best way to separate the wheat from the barley, as I don't care for the barley husks in my breakfast (wheat malt is huskless).

I do a step mash, with a 20-minute rest around 45C, and another (or two) around 63 and 72. My choices seem to be either 1) to go through the entire mash schedule with just wheat, remove it, then go back down to 45 and do it again, or 2) mash them at the same time, either in separate bags or one inside the other.

I don't mind the extra time or work, so I'm looking for the better option in terms of a better beer. The first option is a bit of a twist on the Herrmann method, which could give me more banana esters. Any other thoughts? Anyone see any glaring problems?

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Do a reiterated mash? Mash the wheat using a BIAB method first, remove, then mash the barley?

 

[Miraculix]

Two bags at the same time sounds best time wise.

 

[day_trippr]

iirc if the wheat malt has a high enough diastatic power (> 60 °L) it'll self-convert, so a split mash would then be viable.
Lautering could be a challenge...

Cheers!

 

[ebbelwoi]

iirc if the wheat malt has a high enough diastatic power (> 60 °L) it'll self-convert, so a split mash would then be viable.
Lautering could be a challenge...

Cheers!

What do you mean by a split mash? The wheat before the barley? I use a BIAB setup, for what it's worth.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Do a reiterated mash? Mash the wheat using a BIAB method first, remove, then mash the barley?

So that would be option 1 above? Good to know the name, so I can do more research. Thanks!

 

[ebbelwoi]

Two bags at the same time sounds best time wise.

I don't mind the extra time. I'm looking for the better result.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

So that would be option 1 above? Good to know the name, so I can do more research. Thanks!

A reiterated mash is where you mash one set of grains and then use the resulting to mash a new set of grains. You could also do two separate bags. Either should give you good results.

 

[bracconiere]

if you use BIAB set-up...i think the two bag approach would be best....never done BIAB myself, might need some rice hulls with the wheat....

 

[FatDragon]

A reiterative step mash seems like it would take forever. If you can do it with minimal personal input (I.e. using a programmable mash tun so you can just program it and let it run), that might work, but if you're hands-on the whole time you're looking at a what, eight hour brewday?

I've done BIAB mashes a couple times with two bags, one with half of the grist, the other inside it with the other half of the grist. It wasn't a disaster, and the beer turned out alright. If you're dead-set on this, that's the route I'd go.

However, if I were you, I'd just brew normally and accept a little extra roughage in my cereal.

 

[FatDragon]

might need some rice hulls with the wheat....

Isn't that exactly what he's trying to avoid, though?

 

[ebbelwoi]

I suppose I should've added this info in the OP: I do small-batch BIAB with a sous vide cooker on my kitchen stove. The sous vide machine makes step mashes very easy to do, and since it's in the kitchen, I can just relax in the living room and get up from the soda once in a while to make whatever adjustments are necessary. It's going to be on a Saturday morning, so I really don't mind the extra time or bother.

 

[bracconiere]

Isn't that exactly what he's trying to avoid, though?

lol, you're very right...didn't put 1+1 together....breakfast cereal....forgot that,

 

[ebbelwoi]

OK, here's something that might help make up my mind: does mashing wheat malt alone produce maltose?

The Herrmann method is about converting maltose to glucose, thereby increasing banana esters. Basically, You mash half of the grain, then go back to your original mash-in temp, and mash the other half. The maltase created by the first half supposedly helps convert the maltose in the second half into glucose. If I understand it correctly.

I'm not all gung ho about that method per se, but it seems to suit my goal of producing a good beer while still being able to save the spent wheat malt.

I also tend to have lower mash efficiency with wheat malt, so I'm mildly concerned about the effect that mashing in separate bags might have, whether side by side or one inside the other.

 

[day_trippr]

What do you mean by a split mash? The wheat before the barley? I use a BIAB setup, for what it's worth.

It means you could literally do an entirely separate mash of the wheat malt without worry about complete conversion, which enables pretty much any method you might consider - like mashing the wheat in a separate bag from the barley...

Cheers!

 

[Horseflesh]

Wheat malt doesn’t cost that much, and how much can you go through? Maybe it makes sense to make the beer the easy way, and do a pound or two of wheat mash on the stovetop when you need to restock.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Two bags at the same time sounds best time wise.

I had to.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Wheat malt doesn’t cost that much, and how much can you go through? Maybe it makes sense to make the beer the easy way, and do a pound or two of wheat mash on the stovetop when you need to restock.

I've considered that, too. I've got a 25kg sack of the stuff. Maybe I should just do that. Maybe I can use the extra wort for starters.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

The Herrmann method is about converting maltose to glucose, thereby increasing banana esters. Basically, You mash half of the grain, then go back to your original mash-in temp, and mash the other half. The maltase created by the first half supposedly helps convert the maltose in the second half into glucose. If I understand it correctly.

Or just add some dextrose (glucose). You're not bound by the Reinheitsgebot!

I also tend to have lower mash efficiency with wheat malt, so I'm mildly concerned about the effect that mashing in separate bags might have, whether side by side or one inside the other.

The lower efficiency with wheat tends to come from a poorer crush - because it's a smaller grain, it really needs to be crushed separately and more finely than barley. I crush my wheat with a corona mill, which works better than my normal two-roller mill.

The only way to know if it'll work is to try it (separate mashes). I'm not sure how you'll go with draining and sparging (if you sparge) your wheat - it might be too sticky and messy even for BIAB, but conversion etc. should be OK.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Thanks everybody for the input. I ended up mashing everything together (after double crushing ) and putting the 505/50 wheat/barley blend on my granola. It's palatable, and maybe even more effective! As long as I don't get husks stuck in my teeth, I'll be fine.