theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't decant unless it was physically necessary to get the next step of wort in.
Heady Topper yeast harvest
- Thread starter sambr0n1
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
I wouldn't decant unless it was physically necessary to get the next step of wort in.
theveganbrewer said:
Won't be necessary at all. One of my stars is in a mason jar. The other is in a 500ml flask. I have two, 2L flasks. I was going to prep 400ml of wort in each, then drop the small step on top of it. I should have enough room to also add the 1L step before I would need to decant.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Good idea. Conan can be notoriously unwilling to flocculate (but don't worry if it does), so you'll want to avoid decanting unless you have time to really drop the yeast hard before decanting. You want to save all the less flocculant cells that are left in suspension, you'll do so by not decanting.
What do you think about me combining my 2 starters at the end since my friend and I are growing this to "wash" and split. I am growing them both with the following steps (each got about 100 ml of dregs from a can to start):
1. 150 ml
2. 400 ml
3. 1 L
4. 1 L (previous step decanted)
5. 1.8 L (previous step decanted)
The only difference between the 2 is that 1 will grow on a stir plate and the other will grow as intermittent shaking. I have estimated low on all my numbers with yeastcalc.com and come up with ~300 billion cells in the intermittent shake flask and ~500 billion in the stir plate batch after the 1.8 L step.
My current plan is to crash and decant the 1.8 L steps, then combine them into a single flask, add sterile water, swirl and divide the results into pint jars for my friend and me.
Does that sound like the right way to get as even a split as I can in the jars, or is there a better way I am not thinking of?
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
You're doing all the work, you should just take the 500 billion one 
Not sure if I asked before, but I'm curious why you are adding sterile water when you already have sterile wort there. I would just decant to the level that will fill up all the jars you want to fill. If you want to fill 6 jars, just decant until you have 2800 ml left, decanting about 1000 ml. Then just swirl them up and fill to nearly the top of each of the jars. They'll settle out and then you can step those jars up for brew day when you see fit. I don't see the need to boil, sterilize, cool down, and add water to the wort if it's already up near the volume you need. You don't need to wash it, there's nothing much in there to wash out, no hops, not much protein.
Not sure if I asked before, but I'm curious why you are adding sterile water when you already have sterile wort there. I would just decant to the level that will fill up all the jars you want to fill. If you want to fill 6 jars, just decant until you have 2800 ml left, decanting about 1000 ml. Then just swirl them up and fill to nearly the top of each of the jars. They'll settle out and then you can step those jars up for brew day when you see fit. I don't see the need to boil, sterilize, cool down, and add water to the wort if it's already up near the volume you need. You don't need to wash it, there's nothing much in there to wash out, no hops, not much protein.
If I drink 2 cans at once, am I better off combining both dregs into one and proceeding with stepping up or am I better off separating (I have 2 x 2L erlenmeyer flasks, 1 x 1L erlenmeyer and lots of smaller canning jars)?
Thanks!
Thanks!
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Separate and do 1 can per flask. Estimate 1-2 billion cells per can when running calculators.
Cool thanks!
I thought about taking the full one, but he's the one who traded for the HT. plus, I canned a LOT of starter wort over the winter. So at this point, adding starter wort is a matter of sanitizing a flask and popping open a jar.
Because I have the canner, sterile water is easy. I took a gallon of RO, and canned 6 quarts of water while I was doing other stuff this weekend.
Since I've never washed yeast or grew a starter out of anything other than a white labs tube, I figured I might as well wash the starters for practice. I also thought diluting with the water would make it easier to split the jars between us.
Because I have the canner, sterile water is easy. I took a gallon of RO, and canned 6 quarts of water while I was doing other stuff this weekend.
Since I've never washed yeast or grew a starter out of anything other than a white labs tube, I figured I might as well wash the starters for practice. I also thought diluting with the water would make it easier to split the jars between us.
Hey veganbrewer, how much yeast nutrient do you add to each step? The directions say 1 tsp per gallon, but I assume you added a higher concentration to the first step (1/8 tsp in 100 ml) just because 1/8 tsp was easy to measure out? I assume you aren't increasing linearly from there, right (1/2 tsp in 400 ml starter, 1.25 tsp in 1000 ml, etc)? So how much should I add to each step?
Sorry for the seemingly really dumb question, but I just want to make sure I'm thinking about this right. So you said not to decant unless you need to for your container size. So I assume I don't decrease the next step's starter size when adding the full volume of the previous step, correct? So for the first step, I would add the full 100 ml to the full 400 ml of the next step, right? Not decrease the second step to 300 because of the 100 I'm adding. I'm assuming not, just making sure.
Sorry for the seemingly really dumb question, but I just want to make sure I'm thinking about this right. So you said not to decant unless you need to for your container size. So I assume I don't decrease the next step's starter size when adding the full volume of the previous step, correct? So for the first step, I would add the full 100 ml to the full 400 ml of the next step, right? Not decrease the second step to 300 because of the 100 I'm adding. I'm assuming not, just making sure.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
That's right on the decanting. If you have the space to add the entire next step, just add it. If you don't, you can decant, but with Conan, make sure you give it ample fridge time to drop, it likes to stay in suspension.
I use Wyeast Nutrients, 1/2 tsp (2.2 Grams) per 5 gallons (19 liters) of wort.
But in my starters, I use more than normal. I read a study somewhere that large amounts of nutrients helps fermentation, well above the recommended rates. So for the first three steps, 1/4 tsp. When I get to the 3+ liter stage I usually use about 1/2tsp.
Awesome. Thank you very much. Just got my Heady last night so I will we trying this shortly.
When I bulked mine up, I stuck it in the freezer for 5 min to allow all yeast to settle before decanting. However, if you're using a stir plate, allow it to sit without stirring for a day, then put it in the freezer for 5 min before decanting. I usually decant because of off flavors that can stay in solution, so its always good to give the cells fresh media.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Slow cooling is the best method to make sure you don't kill off any cells. I wouldn't recommend freezing yeast for any amount of time unless you are specifically preparing a glycol solution for it. I know it's only 5 minutes, but if you can shock it enough to drop it, it's probably messing with the yeast.
The off flavors from the starter will not go into the yeast. You just need to decant the final starter that is actually going into the batch of beer. There will be off flavors in the rest of the steps, but it doesn't matter in the final product.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I go with 48 because I work at home and can brew with no deadlines. If you're in a rush, 24-36 hours should be ok so long as you see that fermentation has occurred.
theveganbrewer said:
I am not in a rush to brew with this yeast. It's not my "on deck" beer. I am growing it to split with a friend. It will likely be a month before I need to make a starter with what I am growing now
Vegan - another question.
Do you smell your starters as you go along? I ask because of this.
Step one was extremely peachy, much like the aroma from the can of HT I drank. Step 2 is chugging along. Some krausen and definite yeast sediment in the bottom of the flasks.
However, today, the aroma I get, especially when I swirl it well before I remove the foil lid to smell, is very VERY lightly pepper/clove phenolic. It may just be the power of suggestion, because I read another thread today where some people were reporting peppery, almost Belgian like qualities early on in beers made with Conan. Universally, the phenolics and esters disappear after a couple of weeks conditioning the finished beers.
Have you noticed this with your Conan cultures?
I went back over my sanitation procedures and find it unlikely (though not impossible) that I picked up some wild yeast.
On harvest day, I wiped the whole top of the can with a cotton ball soaked in rubbing alcohol. I decanted the beer into a glass, leaving about 100 ml behind in the can. The dregs of the can went into a sanitized flask for one, a sanitized mason jar for the other. The rims of both receiving vessels had been wiped with alcohol and flamed (as had the mouth of the mason jar containing my canned, sanitized wort). I even did a quick starsan soak (soak not spray) of the aluminum foil that went over the mouth of the step one vessels. Both got O2. But I boiled my oxygenating stone and then gave it a starsan soak before oxygenating.
The samples still smelled peachy when I put them in the step 2 flasks last night. Both flasks got a full submersion in starsan. The mouths of everything were wiped with alcohol and flamed like I did in step one. The O2 stone got the same treatment (boil then starsan). The foil that went over the caps got starsan.
The aroma is not objectionable at all. But it is definitely clovey. If that is not expected, I can only think of 2 things that might have happened:
1. I picked up some wild yeast one of the times I popped off the aluminum foil to smell whether it smelled malty or like alcohol. I find that hard to believe because I have 2 flasks going and both of them have the identical smell at exactly the same level of concentration (perceptually anyway).
2. The room where my stirplate and shaken flasks were sitting all day today does get a little warm in the afternoons. It is upstairs and can get to 75-77F ambient. Although a couple of posts here discuss keeping them warm for propagation.
I brew in 10 gallon batches and am considering only giving half of my batch the cultured Conan. Just in case. I am not making a HT clone. But I am making a standard IPA with my first attempt.
Any ideas?
Do you smell your starters as you go along? I ask because of this.
Step one was extremely peachy, much like the aroma from the can of HT I drank. Step 2 is chugging along. Some krausen and definite yeast sediment in the bottom of the flasks.
However, today, the aroma I get, especially when I swirl it well before I remove the foil lid to smell, is very VERY lightly pepper/clove phenolic. It may just be the power of suggestion, because I read another thread today where some people were reporting peppery, almost Belgian like qualities early on in beers made with Conan. Universally, the phenolics and esters disappear after a couple of weeks conditioning the finished beers.
Have you noticed this with your Conan cultures?
I went back over my sanitation procedures and find it unlikely (though not impossible) that I picked up some wild yeast.
On harvest day, I wiped the whole top of the can with a cotton ball soaked in rubbing alcohol. I decanted the beer into a glass, leaving about 100 ml behind in the can. The dregs of the can went into a sanitized flask for one, a sanitized mason jar for the other. The rims of both receiving vessels had been wiped with alcohol and flamed (as had the mouth of the mason jar containing my canned, sanitized wort). I even did a quick starsan soak (soak not spray) of the aluminum foil that went over the mouth of the step one vessels. Both got O2. But I boiled my oxygenating stone and then gave it a starsan soak before oxygenating.
The samples still smelled peachy when I put them in the step 2 flasks last night. Both flasks got a full submersion in starsan. The mouths of everything were wiped with alcohol and flamed like I did in step one. The O2 stone got the same treatment (boil then starsan). The foil that went over the caps got starsan.
The aroma is not objectionable at all. But it is definitely clovey. If that is not expected, I can only think of 2 things that might have happened:
1. I picked up some wild yeast one of the times I popped off the aluminum foil to smell whether it smelled malty or like alcohol. I find that hard to believe because I have 2 flasks going and both of them have the identical smell at exactly the same level of concentration (perceptually anyway).
2. The room where my stirplate and shaken flasks were sitting all day today does get a little warm in the afternoons. It is upstairs and can get to 75-77F ambient. Although a couple of posts here discuss keeping them warm for propagation.
I brew in 10 gallon batches and am considering only giving half of my batch the cultured Conan. Just in case. I am not making a HT clone. But I am making a standard IPA with my first attempt.
Any ideas?
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
That sounds normal to me, I don't think you picked any bugs up. You sound very well-versed in sanitation, and you are doing more than I am in that sense. You were smelling the actual Heady Topper in the first step. I usually get Heady smell in the first two, then other smells take over. The juicy peach is always in the final beer though. I wouldn't worry about ruining your beer with it, I'd proceed as originally plan, do the entire 10 with it.
I've harvested up to 78 degrees before and the final beer always tasted the same. It throws some funky smells, which is why I think it could be a hybrid Belgian strain, but it didn't deter me and I never had bad fermentation from it.
I've always been a freak about sanitation. I got even more so a couple of years ago when a tiny nick in a piece of transfer hose ruined my beloved oatmeal stout. It took down that beer and another one before I identified the source.
Between that and the fact that this is my first foray into harvesting dregs, I am a little gun shy.
I am really hoping to master this. I have three 750ml Cantillon Geuze in a 55F wine fridge that I hand carried back from the brewery in Brussels last summer. If I get this process down, I'm considering trying to grow the bugs from those.
Unbelievable. Bumped up to my 1L step about 3 hrs ago. I just went up to check the one on the stir plate, and swirl the one that isn't. Stir plate had just the faint beginning of a krausen. The other one put off some foam when I swirled it.
The clove is still there, although reduced because of the added starter wort. But I can swear that I smell some peach trying to creep back in.
What kind of sorcery have I unleashed?
The clove is still there, although reduced because of the added starter wort. But I can swear that I smell some peach trying to creep back in.
What kind of sorcery have I unleashed?
Harvested from 2 cans last night. Is the stuff that settled out really quickly yeast already? This is my first time harvesting from a can/bottle.
I have it at about 72F and I swirl it whenever I walk by it, which is often, just to check on it
I have it at about 72F and I swirl it whenever I walk by it, which is often, just to check on it
Wow, this stuff is active. My stir plate flask is staying relatively under control. But I went up this morning to swirl the one that isn't on a stir plate and wound up with foam all over my hands and the counter-top. I put a couple of drops of anti-foam from a pipette when I stepped up last night. I may need to double check the dosage recommendation an hit it again tonight.
Based on what I see when I stop the sir plate for a bit and let that one settle out, I am thinking I may have had a higher starting cell count in the one that did not get the stir plate.
Based on what I see when I stop the sir plate for a bit and let that one settle out, I am thinking I may have had a higher starting cell count in the one that did not get the stir plate.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Harvested from 2 cans last night. Is the stuff that settled out really quickly yeast already? This is my first time harvesting from a can/bottle.
I have it at about 72F and I swirl it whenever I walk by it, which is often, just to check on it
Probably not. You will see a yeast cake that looks more dense. I have a picture of the 1st step finished on my blog, link in my sig about harvesting conan from a can. Pic is about halfway down that post.
I brewed a standard IPA with mine, and bottled Thursday. Its tastes very good, you won't be disappointed in it. Brew with a solid and fruity hop profile though, otherwise the yeast may not some its true colors. Check this out though, I'm growing some cascade that have been going for one week strong now. I'm pumped, I'll transplant them outdoors in another week.
MrNickVT
Well-Known Member
This may be a newb question but how much would be needed for a 5 gallon batch?
