Heady Topper Results From Ward Labs

[beervoid]

What's Typical NEIPA levels?

Ballast Point did a study in 2016 or 2017, testing base malts from Canada, US, UK, Germany,
as well as malted wheat from Canada to see what ions the malt would contribute. Results
are as follows:

All mashes conducted with DI water.

10* Plato wort

S04
- Anywhere from 50-100 ppm
- Content actually decreases throughout fermentation due to yeast metabolizing it to synthesize
amino acids.

Cl
- Close to 200 ppm
- Their trials found that numbers increased through fermentation. Thoughts are that hops
contribute CL as well??

Ca
- 25 ppm
- Decreases during the mash due to interaction with phosphates and PH drop. Remains steady
after the mash and through fermentation.

Mg
- 70 ppm
- Remains constant through fermentation

Na
- From 20-40 ppm. Remains steady throughout fermentation


Variation in ions between malts can vary based on the water each maltster uses.

Good stuff, thanks for sharing that.
It seems that unless alot of ions can be filtered by the mash, that most people are already quiet in the ballpark then aiming for ppm of in between 100-200ppm of either chloride or sulfate when it concerns neipa styles.

 

[kaz4121]

Here is the Ward Labs mineral analysis for Julius: http://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/ward-labs-mineral-analysis-of-tree-house-julius/

I know it's not incredibly helpful, but I think the key takeaway from it is aim for around 100 ppm calcium, 150 ppm sulfate, 150 ppm chloride starting water profile. Also, Julius finishes with a pH of 4.6.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Here is the Ward Labs mineral analysis for Julius: http://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/ward-labs-mineral-analysis-of-tree-house-julius/

I know it's not incredibly helpful, but I think the key takeaway from it is aim for 30 - 50 ppm calcium, 350 - 400 ppm sulfate, 300 - 400 ppm chloride starting water profile. Also, Julius finishes with a pH of 4.6.

This was a really great read and thanks for sharing this. Very interesting stuff!

But just to make one correction, the numbers you are stating are what we'd be looking for in the FINISHED beer, not our starting water profile built from distilled or reverse osmosis. The point of the article is how the numbers change from what we start with to what we end with. They make a clear recommendation/ball park suggestion towards the end of the article for starting numbers that should end up in the desired range.

 

[HopsAreGood]

If you really want to dig deeper into this you can. If we take the one example that is given (a pretty standard NEIPA in terms of grains, hops, yeast) that we have lab analysis for...we get the following results for the starting water and the finished water.

Calcium: 36.2 % decrease
Magnesium: 3175% increase
Sodium: 321% increase
Sulfate: 353% increase
Chloride: 170% increase

They give us the lab results for the finished beer in a can of treehouse Julius:

Calcium: 64 ppm
Magnesium: 185 ppm
Sodium: 32 ppm
Sulfate: 474 ppm
Chloride: 299 ppm

So if we used the above percentages and reverse engineer them, we'd end up with the STARTING water to target for Julius: (Assuming these percentages remained true)

Calcium: 100ppm (36.2% decrease) 63.8
Magnesium: 6ppm (3175% increase) 190.5
Sodium: 10ppm (321% increase) 32.1
Sulfate: 135ppm (353% increase) 476.5
Chloride: 175ppm (170% increase) 297.5

These numbers will vary based on the Malt, hops, and yeast contributions but it's definitely a great starting point if you're trying to emulate the water profile of Julius.

 

[kaz4121]

If you really want to dig deeper into this you can. If we take the one example that is given (a pretty standard NEIPA in terms of grains, hops, yeast) that we have lab analysis for...we get the following results for the starting water and the finished water.

Calcium: 36.2 % decrease
Magnesium: 3175% increase
Sodium: 321% increase
Sulfate: 353% increase
Chloride: 170% increase

They give us the lab results for the finished beer in a can of treehouse Julius:

Calcium: 64 ppm
Magnesium: 185 ppm
Sodium: 32 ppm
Sulfate: 474 ppm
Chloride: 299 ppm

So if we used the above percentages and reverse engineer them, we'd end up with the STARTING water to target for Julius: (Assuming these percentages remained true)

Calcium: 100ppm (36.2% decrease) 63.8
Magnesium: 6ppm (3175% increase) 190.5
Sodium: 10ppm (321% increase) 32.1
Sulfate: 135ppm (353% increase) 476.5
Chloride: 175ppm (170% increase) 297.5

These numbers will vary based on the Malt, hops, and yeast contributions but it's definitely a great starting point if you're trying to emulate the water profile of Julius.

Yep. I accidentally copied the wrong sentence over. Updated with the 100/150/150 ish targets

 

[kaz4121]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I followed up the mineral analysis with beverage analytics of Tree House Julius here: http://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/beverage-analytics-of-tree-house-julius/

Analysis Method Results Units

Color ASBC Beer 10-A 10.8 SRM

pH ASBC Beer 9 4.60 –

Turbidity ASBC Beer 27-B 1821 NTU

Protein Discrete Analyzer 8.1 g/L

ABV ASBC Beer 4 7.10 % v/v

Density ASBC Beer 4 1.01346 g/mL

Specific Gravity ASBC Beer 4 1.01454 –

Apparent Extract ASBC Beer 4 3.72 % w/w

Real Extract ASBC Beer 4 6.18 % w/w

Attenuation ASBC Beer 4 64.7 %

CO2 ASBC Beer 4 4.6 g/L

DO ASBC Beer 4 0.004 mg/L

Bitterness ASBC Beer 23 121 IBU