Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[Shuasha]

Damn, I may have screwed this one up. It was my first time messing with water additions and the EZWaterCalculator had me add 112gms of Gypsum for 12.5 gallons post-boil (60 in the mash, 52 in the sparge water). That gives calcium of 442, Chloride of 77 and Sulfate of 929!? If I'm doing total hardness right, I add Ca with Mg and I still only have 553 TH.

Should be interesting when it finishes.. hopefully it's drinkable.

 

[Calichusetts]

Yikes...

 

[Tony269]

So I am brand new to this MASSIVE thread but the clone on the first page is the most up to date from all the research right and then the comments are people make tweaks to it right?

Does the person that started it just go back and edit it all the time?

 

[Shuasha]

So I am brand new to this MASSIVE thread but the clone on the first page is the most up to date from all the research right and then the comments are people make tweaks to it right?

Does the person that started it just go back and edit it all the time?

The person that started the thread doesn't post on here anymore, but yes, that's the latest recipe. The only change has been the water hardness which you may or may not want to mess with.

 

[Brewbien]

So I am brand new to this MASSIVE thread but the clone on the first page is the most up to date from all the research right and then the comments are people make tweaks to it right?



Does the person that started it just go back and edit it all the time?

Veganbrewer doesn't post here much anymore but the recipe on the first page is the most current. The general consensus is that Heady has been changing over time probably due to hop availability so the current clone may not be as close to current Heady but was pretty damn close if not spot on at the time.

 

[ianmatth]

Another change is that Heady Topper does not use wheat and their dry hop periods are 4-5 days long.

 

[mtnagel]

So what's the recipe without the wheat? Just increase the base malt?

 

[redshift76]

Another change is that Heady Topper does not use wheat and their dry hop periods are 4-5 days long.

How do know about the wheat? Also, from what I understand, Heady has always been dry hopped for 4-5 days, same as the veganbrewer's recipe on page 1 "Each dry hop went in loose for 4 days"

Just curious...

 

[Braufessor]

The wheat is referenced in one of the interviews..... I think it is maybe in the Chop and Brew episode one, where Kimmich is speaking to a group of homebrewers. He also references limited time dry hoping time. I am sure someone can pinpoint it better than I can. Here is a link to that presentation Kimmich gives - it is really an interesting and informative segment - worth listening to if you have not.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfySDN2mF0[/ame]

 

[JOE_R]

So I am brand new to this MASSIVE thread but the clone on the first page is the most up to date from all the research right and then the comments are people make tweaks to it right?

Does the person that started it just go back and edit it all the time?

I would run with the recipe on the first page without tweaking it too much. I used Vegan's recipe and Bobbrew's hops schedule. I changed the yeast to WLP001 because Conan was unavailable. I recommend grinding the wheat finer before mashing. I did this to get the O.G. I was looking for. This recipe will give you a great beer just the way it is..IF.. your brewing skills are good. I see a lot of brewers splitting hairs with this recipe and I don't think the end result will vary that much. At least try it once as is, then change it to suit your taste buds. I would concentrate my efforts on (1) proper mash temp. to end up with a low F.G., (I mashed 90 minutes) (2) whirlpool/hops phase and dry hopping because this is the heart and soul of this beer (3) fermentation temp. (use a starter) for a low F.G. and to get some fruitiness. BTW CALIBRATE YOUR THERMOMETERS

 

[Calichusetts]

I think the wheat was replaced with oat if I remember correctly, it was because of his wife. It's in that video. He also mentions that they contracted from a hop farm to have consistency year after year. So it will change again next year but then should be more reliable after that. The pearl is also from one harvest so it's consistent

This info is all in this video. Skip the first 30 minutes if you don't want the backstory (which is interesting)


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Shuasha]

Thanks for the video!

I wonder how much misinformation he throws out to protect his recipe? He seems fairly protective of it in the video.

 

[brewski09]

I would also get some Conan yeast after trying a split batch with Conan from a can and wlp001. It's just not the same beer.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[ja09]

I wonder how much misinformation he throws out to protect his recipe?

You mean like this? He's probably cracking up at this thread right now. :cross:

 

[Tony269]

Can someone explain this? I am reading the recipe and I understand putting the hops at flame out with 0 mins in the boil but what is the steeping process?

Does it mean throw all of the hops below in the kettle at flame out lower the temp to around 180 and whirl pool rest of them in?

At Flameout?
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min – 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs


Lower temp to 180, whirlpool and let sit for 30 mins?
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[Shuasha]

Can someone explain this? I am reading the recipe and I understand putting the hops at flame out with 0 mins in the boil but what is the steeping process?

Does it mean throw all of the hops below in the kettle at flame out lower the temp to around 180 and whirl pool rest of them in?

At Flameout?
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min – 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs


Lower temp to 180, whirlpool and let sit for 30 mins?
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs

Thanks everyone for your help.

That's what I did. Still fermenting (at 1.011 right now) and it smells amazing.

 

[Tony269]

That's what I did. Still fermenting (at 1.011 right now) and it smells amazing.

Thanks for the quick response, I am new to brewing and want to be specific, so I drop in the 1 oz of Columbus and 2 oz of Simcoe at burn out then lower the team to 180 degrees put in an oz each of Columbus, Simcone, Amerillo Gold, and .5 oz of Centennial then cover and hold at 180 degrees for 30 mins?

Also, the dry hopping is confusing, first it says drop in at 8 days and then below he says to split them up and add at 14 days and then at 21 days.

Last thing, I swear, what yeast is comparable to Conan? I have seen lots of debate over this and would rather something comparable from my local brewery general store.

Sorry for all the questions, I tried to read through most of the posts but as all of you know there are a boat load.

thanks.

 

[ianmatth]

There are different opinions on what temperature to add the whirlpool hops, the first 3 times I did the clone, I waited 30 minutes and let it naturally cool to 180*. The last time I cooled as quickly as possible and added them at 170*. The general consensus is also just to add them and don't stir them. I think theveganbrewer had some confusion about what he even did for dry hopping. Heady apparently is 28 days from brewing to caning, and they dry hop for 4-5 day periods, so my guess is they start adding dry hops at 14 days. The last time I did the clone I started adding at 8 days for 4-5 day periods each time, so I will end up bottling on day 21 or 22. No other yeast is going to give you what Conan does. It seems there are now readily available commercial options, so I would just tell you to order one online and make a starter unless your local HB store carries it.

 

[NuclearRich]

I had better results with hopstand below 180, to tell the truth, more like 160. that being said, I have to give it another go, YMMV, yadda yadda.

The dy hopping as I understood it, was AT day 14 add the first half of the dry hops, and then AT day 21 add the other half. Now, i (and many others) think that may be a little on the too long side of thigns for dry hopping, so its cut to an 8 day total dry hop, adding the first round somewhere around your finished fermentation (I probably go further than others and do day 21 instead of 14), and then the second half 4 days later.

a LHBS will certaily tell you to use WY1056 if thats what they carry, and cant (or wont) find conan. Search online. Accept no substitutes, and build a big starter.

 

[kevink]

You mean like this? He's probably cracking up at this thread right now. :cross:

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that video. We have no idea if this is a joke or not. It very well could be.

 

[droder1]

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that video. We have no idea if this is a joke or not. It very well could be.

Seems like John would have too much time on his hands; just to throw off the hundred(s)? of homebrewers trying to clone, as best we can, heady



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[masonsjax]

Last thing, I swear, what yeast is comparable to Conan? I have seen lots of debate over this and would rather something comparable from my local brewery general store.

Nothing compares to Conan yeast. It is the main variable that sets Heady Topper apart from the pack. There are several sources you can easily get Conan from now, so there's no reason to waste time with something that wont live up.

 

[kevink]

Seems like John would have too much time on his hands; just to throw off the hundred(s)? of homebrewers trying to clone, as best we can, heady



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Well, not just homebrewers.

 

[SavoryChef]

If it were me, I would throw numbers around to make us crazy home brewers continue to around in circles. He is probably watching this thread and laughing

 

[herc1354]

This from what I understand is a close sub in for Conan

http://www.love2brew.com/ECY-North-East-Ale-ECY29-p/lyec29.htm.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[sweetcell]

This from what I understand is a close sub in for Conan

http://www.love2brew.com/ECY-North-East-Ale-ECY29-p/lyec29.htm.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

That's not a sub. That *is* Conan.

 

[NBBC13]

Amarillo isn't my favorite. I hate it as a flavor addition, it's almost a metallic taste to me. It's aroma is pleasant, but pretty weak. I just don't think it has the qualities to justify the premium price.

agreed, although I don't hate it, just think there are better choices. a few of us were lucky enough to brew a pilot batch with one of the brewers at Harpoon - 300+ gallons of a double IPA - tons of Amarillo. When the beer went to tap - called Amarillo Antidote, it was good and tasty, but not great. mainly for the reasons you mentioned, but also because the Harpoon house yeast took away some of character I was hoping to get. We brewed the same recipe at home using a different yeast and the hop flavor came through a bit more

 

[Nu2Bru]

has anyone tried their clones? I just moved away from the area. The cannery was 10 minutes away, and am a huge heady topper fan, but its getting so rediculous to purchase in our area. He wont sell at the cannery anymore. Im a home brewer as well, kinda new, and havent jumped to all-grain due to space. Is this something that could be made into an extract recipe or no? Let me know. Making it at home is a hell of a lot cheaper, lol! They might as well trade this on the commodities market!

This article might help: http://blog.kegoutlet.com/harvestin...IGN&utm_term=0_0cff77a1bf-656fbe76df-94620249



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[herc1354]

That's not a sub. That *is* Conan.

Really, I had no clue as they are not marketing it as Conan, only the description reads much the same as Conan.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[masonsjax]

They can't legally call it Conan, but there are several sources selling it now.

 

[herc1354]

They can't legally call it Conan, but there are several sources selling it now.

Kind of thought it was something like that, is it really that good of a yeast?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[beeber]

Yes it's that good of a yeast. I have brewed this recipe twice, the first time with EDME ale yeast and the second time with Vermont Ale. The difference was HUGE and unmistakable. I will be using Vermont Ale from now on.

Kind of thought it was something like that, is it really that good of a yeast?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[BeerGrylls]

They can't legally call it Conan, but there are several sources selling it now.

John calls it VPB1188 if I recall correctly. It's a strain he got from Noonan from the Vermont pub & brewery. I don't know if anyone actually owns the rights to the term 'Conan'

 

[masonsjax]

Perhaps not, but it is a proprietary strain, so unless they work out a partnership with the Alchemist, they set themselves up for legal liability if the use a term that would positively identify they source of the yeast. They can allude to it's source, but need to be careful about it.

 

[ianmatth]

I've decided to do a 4th dry hop with my latest Heady clone since I'm only dry hopping for 4-5 day periods now. We have no idea how many times they actually dry hop it, and I figured why not give it another dry hop and take it the full 28 days. Pliny the Younger does a quadruple dry hop.

 

[showcow]

Just kegged my heady clone, and used exactly the recipe on page 1. 1.076-1.014, 8.2%. The only difference besides the starting gravity is tHat I did two sets of 3-day dry hops rather than 7 days.

Smells great, more tropical-fruity than I expected (lots of mango and apricot as well) and it'll only be more fragrant when it's carbed. plenty of crisp citrus in the taste. Not really "dank" at all I wouldn't say. Very smooth. I was worried the beersmith calc'd 170+ IBUs would be too much, but it had a nice smooth bitterness that doesn't scrub your tongue, nor does it longer in an unpleasant way. I'm sure that will change with carbonation. Set to 25psi, going to try a pint tomorrow night!

 

[herc1354]

I going to give this a try this weekend, any suggestions, I'm using the recipe from the first post.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[geoffey]

I going to give this a try this weekend, any suggestions, I'm using the recipe from the first post.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

My suggestions: don't sub out the conan yeast or pearl malt. Those are key. Follow the hop additions exactly. Last time I did this I subbed out hops for some Nelson Sauvin I had instead of some of the Citra and Centenial and it came out very different. Also, I FWH the Hopshots and won't do that in this beer again. The "rounded" hop bitterness doesn't work with this beer in my opinion. The amazing hop aroma needs to be supported with enough of a bitter bite.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[herc1354]

Thanks so much, I really don't want to screw this up. I am going to use the pearl malt as well as the hop shot, 10ml if I'm not mistaken. If I understand you correctly you used the hop shot as a FWH rather than at the start of the boil, and did not think this was a good decision, correct?

Funnily I just had a rather large amount if hops and Grains delivered, not much in the order I can use for this brew, had to order more grains and hops...oh well, not like I won't need them at some other point.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[geoffey]

Thanks so much, I really don't want to screw this up. I am going to use the pearl malt as well as the hop shot, 10ml if I'm not mistaken. If I understand you correctly you used the hop shot as a FWH rather than at the start of the boil, and did not think this was a good decision, correct?
Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

That's correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew