Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[IslandLizard]

Could the mods post a locked recipe that mods can alter even as they change and a date of last update with a link to this thread for continued discussion?

An index or database would be a better service to keep track of the posts that contain the latest recipe versions, not just for Heady Topper but for many other active recipes, such as Arrogant Bastard. The question arises, what constitutes a correctly updated recipe and what is just another variation? And who updates them in a timely fashion? Should indeed be someone with editing privileges.

A bad implementation exist already. Just looking through any beer's recipes on Brewtoad, for example, makes my head spin.

Here's another problem:
There are 2 threads listing 3 different recipes for Raging *****. They all claim to be "spot-on," where actually none are even close by themselves. Now parts of each can create a close clone.

 

[ianmatth]

The main problem is that the OP left. The recipe on the first page is actually the 4th version of the recipe and if you look through the first 50 pages of this thread you will see the recipe was highly "crowd-sourced". I think the best answer would be to have theveganbrewer choose someone to take over the thread and continue with further versions to perfect the recipe.

 

[dyqik]

There is the very underused wiki section on the HBT website that could be used to hold the current best recipe for these kind of threads, or links to the relevant posts.

 

[Shuasha]

Mine seems to have finished at 1.010, doing the dry hops now. I put the first half in a muslin bag, I'll leave that for 4 days, then pull them out, replace with the other half, and finish the beer in 4 more days. It smells amazing so far!

 

[ianmatth]

Also, the dry hopping is confusing, first it says drop in at 8 days and then below he says to split them up and add at 14 days and then at 21 days.

The OP doesn't seem to remember what he actually did either, my assumption is a triple dry hop. The first time I did the recipe I actually did 2.75 oz on day 8 and 1.375 oz each on day 14 and day 21, that was not enough to get it to match up to Heady Topper. The next two times I did this clone I used 5.5 oz on day 8 and 2.75 oz each on day 14 and day 21. It seems that a lot of people are thinking to just dry hop with 2.75 oz each on day 14 and day 21. IMO, and from my experience doing this clone 4 times, triple dry hop...and if you want this at Heady level 5.5 oz total is not going to get it there.

 

[Braufessor]

When you are dry hopping 3 times are you removing the hops? Kimmich seemed to be pretty adamant about the fact that they dry hop "for at least 4 days but not more than 5 days." Are you putting the hops in at Day 8 and pulling them out at day 12, and then putting new ones in at Day 14 and pulling them out at day 18, etc...???

 

[geoffey]

When you are dry hopping 3 times are you removing the hops? Kimmich seemed to be pretty adamant about the fact that they dry hop "for at least 4 days but not more than 5 days." Are you putting the hops in at Day 8 and pulling them out at day 12, and then putting new ones in at Day 14 and pulling them out at day 18, etc...???

I'm not sure how else you can look at it. That's how I've done it.


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[ianmatth]

Pulling hops after each 4-5 day period.

 

[trimixdiver1]

So lets stir the pot some more…..

John has said no boil hops except the extract for bitter.
SO remove the 5min additions from the recipe.

I have been to the brewery and they said its a 3 week turnaround from brewing to packing.

 

[Braufessor]

When I did mine, I threw all dry hops in, at one time, on day 17-21. Then Kegged. I was happy with the results, but, I can't say that I ended up with Heady Topper either...... Just a great IPA.

 

[herc1354]

When I did mine, I threw all dry hops in, at one time, on day 17-21. Then Kegged. I was happy with the results, but, I can't say that I ended up with Heady Topper either...... Just a great IPA.

This is my plan, throw dry hops in at day 17 and 21, keg on 25. I'm at a huge disadvantage as I've NEVER had Heady Topper, a buddy from the area was going to bring me some but could not in the end. The president of our brew club has had Heady Topper so I'll be at the mercy of his memory and taste buds. I really enjoyed brewing this beer, it's turned me on to different ways of hopping the wort as well as Hop Shots. As long as I get a really good IPA I'll be happy, until......I actually get my hands on the original and do a side by side taste.


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[Shuasha]

Just enjoy the beer, who cares if it's a clone?

 

[sweetcell]

John has said no boil hops except the extract for bitter.
SO remove the 5min additions from the recipe.

big breweries can't cool as quickly as we can. so although the hops go in after flameout, the wort is still hot for quite some time. if it takes 30 minutes to knock out, that means a portion of the beer stays over 200*F for those thirty minutes... so his flameout hops are exposed to more isomerization temps than our 5 mins hops, that get 5 mins of boil + 10 mins of above 180*F.

so no, just because john doesn't boil his flavor hops doesn't mean we shouldn't either. this is another example of how you can't translate what big breweries do one-to-one on the homebrewing scale.

 

[GRBC]

big breweries can't cool as quickly as we can. so although the hops go in after flameout, the wort is still hot for quite some time. if it takes 30 minutes to knock out, that means a portion of the beer stays over 200*F for those thirty minutes... so his flameout hops are exposed to more isomerization temps than our 5 mins hops, that get 5 mins of boil + 10 mins of above 180*F.

so no, just because john doesn't boil his flavor hops doesn't mean we shouldn't either. this is another example of how you can't translate what big breweries do one-to-one on the homebrewing scale.

Totally agree. I suspect that flameout/whirlpool, and dry hops in our 5 gallon batches interact very differently than those in a 15 or 30 barrel kettle or conical fermenter. In other words, don't worry about matching their process if you are trying to clone their beer.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Fermentation Day 2 and it smells like heady. The Yeast plays a dominant role, I think the hops only dial the flavor in.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Did you use the recipe in the first post?


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[trimixdiver1]

Well Im on day 4 of fermentation and my gravity is 1.008. So Conan is a very viable yeast. And its still going…… Tasted it and its darn good even without dry hopping. There is a hop twang on the back of the mouth but since the beer is only 4 days old thats expected and will go away in time. I think it may finish drier than intended, so I may increase the mash temp next time. Im still at 63F and will take it down in a day to 55F and start dry hopping.

This clone is pretty darn close. The next batch I will sub out the dry hops for mandarina bavaria and Huell Melon.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Did you use the recipe in the first post?


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The recipe on the first page Attempt 4

 

[Shuasha]

Kegged/bottled this last night. Carb dammit!

It tasted amazing warm/uncarbed, it should be amazing when finished!

 

[JustinSane]

The recipe on the first page Attempt 4

Is it the 4th attempt of the same recipe or has it been perfected since? Can someone please repost a favorite recipe or something that turned out extremely well?

 

[NuclearRich]

Is it the 4th attempt of the same recipe or has it been perfected since? Can someone please repost a favorite recipe or something that turned out extremely well?

Its the fourth version of the recipe on post1. That's the favorite. Theres been discussions of certain tweaks, but I'd go with that one on page 1.

 

[Shuasha]

I just tapped my batch with the recipe on the front page + super hard water. Holy crap is it good! It's been about 2 months since I drank the real thing, but this tastes very close. I did two 5 day hop additions, removing the first before adding the second.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Wow, just transferred to keg after brewing 9 days ago.
Primary took 4 days at 63F OG 1.070 to 1.008, so I am a little drier.
Dumped yeast cake and saved it on day 5
Lowered temp to 55
Dumped dry hops (all) on day 5
On day 9 Lowered temp to 38 Transfered to keg

Damn good at only 9 days old. Id say 90-95% there if not there already. Damn Good recipe. I may spit the dry hops next time or use some of the new Manderina Bavaria as dry hops to push it on the orange a little more.

Highly recommend.

 

[irishrover32]

I'm no authority here but I think That recipe needs some attention in that video of kimmich lecturing a homebrew club or something he says he uses no hops in the boil so I assume he's mainly whirl pooling and dry hopping and using the hopshot for bittering. Wat ya think?

 

[coldcrash]

I just tapped my batch with the recipe on the front page + super hard water. Holy crap is it good! It's been about 2 months since I drank the real thing, but this tastes very close. I did two 5 day hop additions, removing the first before adding the second.

Care to share your water profile?

 

[trimixdiver1]

I'm no authority here but I think That recipe needs some attention in that video of kimmich lecturing a homebrew club or something he says he uses no hops in the boil so I assume he's mainly whirl pooling and dry hopping and using the hopshot for bittering. Wat ya think?

This has been addressed, look back a page or two

 

[Shuasha]

Care to share your water profile?

I messed it up, was shooting for 750 hardness as per the brew sheet in one of their vids. I put the wrong info in the calculator and added too much, around 1000 for the hardness. Some of that probably precipitated out, so it's lower but the beer turned out awesome anyway. Chlorides were around 70.

Other things I did were acetic acid additions to make sure the mash/sparge water were at the proper pH, around 5.4 for the mash and 5.8 for the sparge water. The mash should be between 5.1 and 5.3 according to Kimmich, but I'll live with 5.4 since it's what most recommend.

 

[irishrover32]

This has been addressed, look back a page or two

just seen it dont know how missed that thanks

 

[ianmatth]

I messed it up, was shooting for 750 hardness as per the brew sheet in one of their vids. I put the wrong info in the calculator and added too much, around 1000 for the hardness. Some of that probably precipitated out, so it's lower but the beer turned out awesome anyway. Chlorides were around 70.

Other things I did were acetic acid additions to make sure the mash/sparge water were at the proper pH, around 5.4 for the mash and 5.8 for the sparge water. The mash should be between 5.1 and 5.3 according to Kimmich, but I'll live with 5.4 since it's what most recommend.

He's talking about measured pH at mash temperature, so apparently that's between 5.4 and 5.6 at room temperature.

 

[trimixdiver1]

I messed it up, was shooting for 750 hardness as per the brew sheet in one of their vids. I put the wrong info in the calculator and added too much, around 1000 for the hardness. Some of that probably precipitated out, so it's lower but the beer turned out awesome anyway. Chlorides were around 70.

Other things I did were acetic acid additions to make sure the mash/sparge water were at the proper pH, around 5.4 for the mash and 5.8 for the sparge water. The mash should be between 5.1 and 5.3 according to Kimmich, but I'll live with 5.4 since it's what most recommend.

Do we really think Ca is at 750? I know the video shows it but maybe he's screwing with us? I guess the only way to know is try it out.

 

[mtnagel]

The total hardness of the finished beer is in fact 750 ppm. But that doesn't mean that all of that is coming from mineral additions as the malts contribute to that (as Martin pointed out in that thread).

 

[trimixdiver1]

Ok, but then why does it state 750 in the brewing water section? Brewing water/ liquor doesn't have grain in it. The sheet is saying the liquor has 750ppm in it before the mash. So hardness is more than 750 with grain.

 

[mtnagel]

I hear what you are saying, but it's possible that number was a target for finished beer. That's how I'm leaning since that number is very high for mineral additions and because the testing (granted 1 test) measured within the error of measurement (I assume) at 746 ppm.

I just realized I posted the wrong link. I meant to post the results when someone had the finished beer measured. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/heady-topper-results-ward-labs-481031/

 

[ianmatth]

The number may sound high, but 4 tsp of gypsum alone will add 700 ppm of Ca and SO4. 2 tsp of gypsum isn't out of line in the least for a 5 gallon batch, so I think going a little higher than this will mimic what they are doing. If someone wanted to do an experiment with 2 tsp vs 4 tsp we might have a better idea of how much gypsum is ideal.

 

[chato]

Do we really think Ca is at 750? I know the video shows it but maybe he's screwing with us? I guess the only way to know is try it out.

From an actual HT brewsheet - it's not the Ca, but the hardness. Look at the amount of Calcium Sulfate added. Holy crap.

 

[trimixdiver1]

From an actual HT brewsheet - it's not the Ca, but the hardness. Look at the amount of Calcium Sulfate added. Holy crap.

My mistake, where is the rest of the sheet? :rockin:

 

[Braufessor]

From an actual HT brewsheet - it's not the Ca, but the hardness. Look at the amount of Calcium Sulfate added. Holy crap.

Well, that would be about 3.5 grams per gallon.

 

[irishrover32]

It's only around 15ppm higher than the burton water profile. Is there a relationship between hardness and sulfate amount? And where did that sheet come from?

 

[chato]

It's only around 15ppm higher than the burton water profile. Is there a relationship between hardness and sulfate amount? And where did that sheet come from?

I'm no water chemist, but I believe calcium sulfate increases hardness as well as the sulfate level, which accentuates hop flavor.

The brewsheet came from the brewer.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Where is the rest?