Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[bobbrews]

So I took the brewery worksheet figures (referenced with the red circle), scaled them down, and plugged it into Greg Noonan's Vermont Pub & Brewery's Water Witch: https://byo.com/resources/brewwater

As you can see, the layout of this calculator looks incredibly similar to the snapshot of the brew sheet.

Here are the results for 6 gallons: (Keep in mind, the Alchemist reportedly uses "Plaster of Paris" instead of Gypsum. Also, homebrewer lactic acid is typically 88% strength vs. the 85% version shown here).

________________________________________

I supplied two different results (in color). Notice the difference when using Calcium Sulfate Anhydrous (Plaster of Paris) vs. Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate (Gypsum) that must be used to hit 750 mg/L.

The information when whittled down, lines up... 6 gallons, approx. 21.6 grams plaster of paris, 1.2, grams calcium chloride, and then adjust mash pH to 5.1-5.3 with lactic acid.

________________________________________

 

[Trillium]

Aaaaarg, you beat me to. I found the Vermont Brewpub spreadsheet a few weeks ago. I entered the Alchemist water profile in the spreadsheet and the desired profile and the calculated salt additions were exactly the same as the brew sheet. Well done Bobbrews.

The only thing I was scratching my head over was the Lactic Acid amount. I had to change the desired alkalinity to -6 to get 121 ml

 

[zam216]

So I just did this recipe this past weekend and did a video for it as well. I used most of the information from this thread so if anyone is interested in the process check it out. I did go way less on water additions just because I could not justify that much hardness for a homebrew.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hk2cMwmt34[/ame]

 

[EyePeeA]

Mr. Malty is recommending 2 packs of Gigayeast Vermont Ale yeast for a 1.2 liter starter in a final volume of 5.5 gallons.

1 pack supposedly contains 200 billion cells. The date on the package is 12/29/15.

Without accounting for the added liquid volume from the packs, I made a 1.5 liter starter using 2 packs with 118 grams of DME. Is this overkill? What are the repercussions of overpitching?

I am intermittently shaking the starter for 3 whole days, including a 1 day cold crash, prior to brewing.

 

[ianmatth]

I would advise cold crashing to see how much yeast you are actually pitching (assume 4 billion cells per ml of solid.) Maybe this is why people are getting bad attenuation with Conan while I consistently get 85-93% attenuation. In fact I got 87% attenuation on a 1.060 OG DIPA pitching at .65 recently. BTW, does anyone know what The Alchemist actually pitches Heady Topper at? I feel like that is the last piece of information I'm unsure of to make a DIPA that actually matches or beats Heady Topper.

 

[EyePeeA]

How many billion cells should I target for 5.5 gallons?

 

[chato]

does anyone know what The Alchemist actually pitches Heady Topper at?

They pitch at 68 and readjust daily to follow a curve that I don't understand:

DAY 1: 8.5 deg P 2: 5.5 deg P 3: 3.0 deg P 4: 2.5 deg P

 

[ultravista]

DAY 1: 8.5 deg P 2: 5.5 deg P 3: 3.0 deg P 4: 2.5 deg P ?

 

[ianmatth]

http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

When I say what do they pitch at I mean million cells / ml / degree plato

I think the curve is saying that they pitch a certain amount on each of the first 4 days, but it doesn't match up to million cells / ml / degree plato, so I assume they are using a different volume measurement, but the total number is 19.5 and since they say they pitch low I assume they mean less than .75 million cells / ml / degree plato. I'm sure there is someone here who knows what units they are using, but if I don't hear anything I am just going to multiply their numbers by 0.03 and try pitching my next DIPA that way.

 

[chato]

http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/
When I say what do they pitch at I mean million cells / ml / degree plato

They pitch 8x106 cells/mL from a starter of 5.5 gallons into 578 gallons.

I think the curve is an increase in temperature from 68 to 70 or 72 over 4 days aiming to achieve the specified degree Plato on each successive day.

 

[ianmatth]

They are pitching pretty low. That comes out to .44 million cells / ml / degree plato, which is less than 150 billions cells for a 5 gallon batch.

Degree plato has nothing to do with temperature. It's pretty much about the same as gravity.
8.5 deg P, 5.5 deg P, 3.0 deg P, 2.5 deg P is equivalent to 1.034, 1.022, 1.012, 1.010.
If you add those up it comes to 1.078 which is roughly the OG of Heady Topper, but I'm not sure what it means.

 

[bulldogbrewhaus]

Good people of HBT, I apologize if this has already been posted but I just couldn't commit to digging through 365 pages of posts. Some good info in this article not only from Kimmich but other great brewers as well. Great thread, hope this is helpful.

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques

 

[davidst]

It'd be hard to read through 3000 posts, is the recipe on the first page still the best or is there a more preferred recipe?

 

[chato]

They are pitching pretty low. That comes out to .44 million cells / ml / degree plato, which is less than 150 billions cells for a 5 gallon batch.

Degree plato has nothing to do with temperature. It's pretty much about the same as gravity.
8.5 deg P, 5.5 deg P, 3.0 deg P, 2.5 deg P is equivalent to 1.034, 1.022, 1.012, 1.010.
If you add those up it comes to 1.078 which is roughly the OG of Heady Topper, but I'm not sure what it means.

I think that's just coincidence that those numbers add up to the OG. Those are the deg P you should be reading daily from your hydrometer test from day 1 to day 4. Fermentation should be complete at 1.010 on Day 4. And the key is to ramp up the temperature over those 4 days to achieve the deg P target for each day - I'd guess about a degree or less rise each day. I don't expect you'd want to go higher than 71 or 72 by day 4.

 

[ianmatth]

Okay, now I get it.

 

[ianmatth]

Doing an experiment where I pitch Conan the way the Alchemist does for Heady Topper: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=575118

 

[robopp]

Thoughts on this video-

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqP0m0wWdM0[/ame]

Here are my thoughts - If the crew of HT is going to hop farm, I would assume that they're checking out hops they're going to use in HT. I haven't heard of anyone mention crystal being in heady topper, which is an aroma hop. This hop has been around forever too.

 

[brewski09]

Thoughts on this video-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqP0m0wWdM0

Here are my thoughts - If the crew of HT is going to hop farm, I would assume that they're checking out hops they're going to use in HT. I haven't heard of anyone mention crystal being in heady topper, which is an aroma hop. This hop has been around forever too.

They are making other beers again. They had a large lineup before the brewpub was wiped out.

 

[davidst]

I'm sort of following the recipe on the first page and the smells coming from the primary are wonderful. Full of peach, citrus and pine notes, I can't wait to try it.

 

[rideincircles]

I just killed the kegs on my batch. It ended up scoring 33 points at bluebonnet, and was knocked for being low on the IBU's. It did get 3rd in my monthly homebrew contest for my homebrew club though.

I need to improve on the water chemistry next time, but I will also up the amount of hopshot I use from 20 to 28ml. Since i am just learning about water chemistry, this will definitely improve on my processes to make it better next time.

Also, I still have a 20ml syringe of hopshot, but was wondering if it breaks down or loses its potency over time. I have had it for a few months now in the fridge. Will probably just use it for an IPA or pale next.

 

[brewski09]

Also, I still have a 20ml syringe of hopshot, but was wondering if it breaks down or loses its potency over time. I have had it for a few months now in the fridge. Will probably just use it for an IPA or pale next.

I recently contacted a manufacturer and was told the half life is greater than 2 years and they don't know how long it will remain stable yet. You should be good, especially if it's in a sealed container and the fridge.

 

[mtnagel]

I recently contacted a manufacturer and was told the half life is greater than 2 years and they don't know how long it will remain stable yet. You should be good, especially if it's in a sealed container and the fridge.

Who told you that?

Anything I've ever seen on hop extracts are they are extremely stable when frozen. This document says 8 years though most I've seen said 5 years.

Also, I still have a 20ml syringe of hopshot, but was wondering if it breaks down or loses its potency over time. I have had it for a few months now in the fridge. Will probably just use it for an IPA or pale next.

I'd move it to the freezer as that will keep it fresh longer.

 

[grundlepunch]

Planning on brewing the current best clone on front page.
However I do not have hop shots nor simcoe hops.

Any input on using CTZ for bittering in place of hop shot and chinook in place of simcoe? I know it wont be as good of a clone, just thoughts on making a good beer.

Thanks!

 

[brewski09]

Planning on brewing the current best clone on front page.
However I do not have hop shots nor simcoe hops.

Any input on using CTZ for bittering in place of hop shot and chinook in place of simcoe? I know it wont be as good of a clone, just thoughts on making a good beer.

Thanks!

Tasty used CTZ in place of hopshot for a Lagunitas clone and said it worked on CYBI, he just said to make sure they aren't brown.

 

[brewski09]

Who told you that?



Anything I've ever seen on hop extracts are they are extremely stable when frozen. This document says 8 years though most I've seen said 5 years.



I'd move it to the freezer as that will keep it fresh longer.

Yakima valley hops

 

[Rush]

Morebeer just released a Heady Topper clone. No clue of accuracy.

https://www.morebeer.com/search?search="topped+with+hops"

 

[robopp]

I brewed the most recent recipe that uses comet. I think it's missing a lot of the fruit that I expect from Heady Topper. I don't think comet should replace Amarillo. Instead, I thin Cascade should replace Amarillo/Comet. I brewed the latest Pliny and the main hop is actually Cascade not Simcoe. It has a beautiful dank citrusy flavor that reminds me of Heady. I'll give this a go and report back.

 

[sweetcell]

I brewed the most recent recipe that uses comet. I think it's missing a lot of the fruit that I expect from Heady Topper. I don't think comet should replace Amarillo. Instead, I thin Cascade should replace Amarillo/Comet. I brewed the latest Pliny and the main hop is actually Cascade not Simcoe. It has a beautiful dank citrusy flavor that reminds me of Heady. I'll give this a go and report back.

FYI, MoreBeer's take on HT:

Estimated original gravity (OG): 1.073-78
Estimated SRM: 8
Estimated IBU’s: 105-110
Estimated alcohol ABV %: 8.1
Suggested fermentation temperature: 68
Recommended mash temperature is 148°F

13 lbs American Pale
12 oz White Wheat
0.5 lb Carastan
1 lb Candi Sugar (Boil)

2 oz. Magnum - Bittering Hops boiled for 90 minutes
1 oz. Each: Amarillo, Apollo, Centennial, Columbus - Aroma Hops are boiled for 5 minutes
1 oz. Each: Amarillo, Simcoe, Centennial, Columbus - Aroma Hops added at flame out
1 oz. Each: Amarillo, Apollo, Centennial, Columbus, Simcoe - Dry Hops added to the fermenter for 3-5 days

 

[Trillium]

Your hop schedule looks pretty good, but your malts are not even close.
Things we know
1) they use Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
2) they use Thomas Fawcett Cara Malt
3) they use dextrose
4) they brew with 750 hardness water.
5) they dry hop with about 4oz per 5 gallons (probably 100% Simcoe)

Edit: clarified #5

 

[robopp]

Not even close.
Things we know
1) they use Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
2) they use Thomas Fawcett Carafa
3) they use dextrose
4) they brew with 750 hardness water.
5) they dry hop with about 1oz per gallon (probably 100% Simcoe)

Totally agree on the lack of Pearl malt in morebeer's recipe completely discounts them. Kimmich himself stated that Heady uses pearl as the base malt. How do you know they use Carafa (430L)? I thought it was widely accepted that they use TF Caramalt (10L)