Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[Trillium]

Had my first HeadyTopper a few nights ago. Wow, it is really that good. However, I was surprised by how light in color it was. The 70 IBUs sound about right, it was not as bitter as say hop stupid at 102 ibu, but was all hop flavor and aroma. It honestly reminded me of a sculpin but way better, more gold in color than copper.

Anyway, now starts my obsession to clone this bad boy.

View attachment 303601

Enjoy reading the 300 pages of this thread and the 100 in the previous thread. It took me about a week.

 

[lzrdkng14]

Help me out here....I am unable to locate any Thomas Fawcett Wheat Malt. Is there a viable common substitute I can use instead? Please recommend.

Thanks!

I had a similar situation and just ended up going with this: http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/white-wheat-cmc-1-lb/

I was pretty happy with the result but would be interested in hearing the opinions of others.

 

[reddskinnfan]

Personally.... I would use a mixture of Torrified Wheat and Flaked Wheat.

 

[roncruiser]

You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.



HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness and/or contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed. No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either. Additionally, I'm in favor of a 148-149 F, 90 minute mash and substituting about 4-5% turbinado for base malt to aid dryness. The water profile is also extremely important.

If I were to clone again, I would advise gaining some IBUs during the whirlpool instead of relying on 100% of the isomerization at boil start. Again, no actual hops should be boiled:

1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.



^The majority of these hops are very piney, dank(marijuana), and full of pungent grapefruit. Centennial is really the only somewhat fruity hop. I am open to minor tweaks if you guys attempt this beer and are familiar with what these hops bring to the table.

Mistake? I'm not sure. Bob mentions a 90 minutes mash. Is that right? I know it's 90 minute boil. How long was your mash?

Thanks...

 

[ultravista]

I had a similar situation and just ended up going with this: http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/white-wheat-cmc-1-lb/

I was pretty happy with the result but would be interested in hearing the opinions of others.

Please expand on your results with the kit. Would you buy it again?

 

[lzrdkng14]

Please expand on your results with the kit. Would you buy it again?

I didn't use the kit. I bought my grains from farmhouse and bought my hops from Yakima valley. Yeast was gigayeast....

Very happy with the results

 

[roncruiser]

Is bobbrews latest recipe using a 90 minute mash? Anyone?

Bueller?

What's the benefit of going 90 minutes on a mash?

 

[rustedbucket]

Did the 17ml hopshot end up adding too much bittering for your taste, or just enough for close to perfection?

That first batch was very fruity, but, yes, it was a smidgen too bitter. Very drinkable, very tasty, but a tad more bitter than desired.

Additionally, I've only ever mashed for 60m.

 

[lzrdkng14]

Is bobbrews latest recipe using a 90 minute mash? Anyone?

Bueller?

What's the benefit of going 90 minutes on a mash?

Yes, 90 minute mash. Not sure on exact "benefit"... but I think it gives you a higher OG.

 

[brewski09]

Wouldn't the OG rely more on sparge time (via rate and all that good technical stuff) than conversion (which should take place in much less than 90 minutes)?

 

[Braufessor]

From what I have read/heard (I believe Denny has said this) - but some people feel they get a more fermentable wort with a longer mash.

I know a recent podcast (or maybe NHC presentation) I listened to was talking about session IPA's. A strategy for getting a fuller beer with a higher FG was to mash for a short period of time (15-20 minutes).

So, I would say a "possible" reason for the long mash is not that it gives you a higher OG, but rather that the wort you produce might be more fermentable and give you a lower FG and a slightly drier beer as finished product.

 

[jammin]

^Stone used a short, hot mash in their levitation ale


Here is some good data points on mash time and fermentability
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mash_Time_Dependency_of_Wort_Fermentability

 

[roncruiser]

You can do a single post-boil addition:

Add the whirlpool hops at 180 F and keep them between 160-180F for 20-30 minutes.

or you can...

Do both:

-Direct flameout addition, letting the wort cool down to 165F (for the added isomerization without destroying too much flavor/aroma)

-Followed by a 165F whirlpool/hopstand for 20-30 min (no isomerization, but a lot of pleasant hop character)

Based on the above suggestion of "Do both". Would it be best to split the hops originally called out for at 180F whirpool, or do the whole array of hops at each?

 

[roncruiser]

You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.



HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness and/or contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed. No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either. Additionally, I'm in favor of a 148-149 F, 90 minute mash and substituting about 4-5% turbinado for base malt to aid dryness. The water profile is also extremely important.

If I were to clone again, I would advise gaining some IBUs during the whirlpool instead of relying on 100% of the isomerization at boil start. Again, no actual hops should be boiled:

1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.


^The majority of these hops are very piney, dank(marijuana), and full of pungent grapefruit. Centennial is really the only somewhat fruity hop. I am open to minor tweaks if you guys attempt this beer and are familiar with what these hops bring to the table.

You can do a single post-boil addition:

Add the whirlpool hops at 180 F and keep them between 160-180F for 20-30 minutes.

or you can...

Do both:

-Direct flameout addition, letting the wort cool down to 165F (for the added isomerization without destroying too much flavor/aroma)

-Followed by a 165F whirlpool/hopstand for 20-30 min (no isomerization, but a lot of pleasant hop character)

I believe my last post was confusing. Even to me. I did not ask the question correctly.

If I were to do both, what is the hop qty for the "Direct Flameout" addition and what is the hop qty for the "Whirlpool/hopstand" addition?

Is it simply taking the total whirlpool hop qty, highlighted in red in the recipe above and adding half for each post-boil addition?
Is it adding the whole qty for each separate addition?

Which is it? I ask because I am unsure if isomerization needs to be compensated for if the hop quantity is split between the two additions.

 

[Brewizard]

A buddy of mine brought me back 4 Heady Toppers when he was down in Vermont for a business trip. I just cracked my first one today and Wow, this really is an awesome beer. I like that it is hoppy, but not too bitter. Very sessionable for a double IPA.

I haven't read through all 300 pages yet, but I was wonder why the use of wheat? Seems out of place.

 

[brewski09]

A buddy of mine brought me back 4 Heady Toppers when he was down in Vermont for a business trip. I just cracked my first one today and Wow, this really is an awesome beer. I like that it is hoppy, but not too bitter. Very sessionable for a double IPA.



I haven't read through all 300 pages yet, but I was wonder why the use of wheat? Seems out of place.

Body/head retention mostly. Keep reading, it's been cut out for most people from what I recall.

 

[Carmichael23]

You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.



HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness and/or contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed. No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either. Additionally, I'm in favor of a 148-149 F, 90 minute mash and substituting about 4-5% turbinado for base malt to aid dryness. The water profile is also extremely important.

If I were to clone again, I would advise gaining some IBUs during the whirlpool instead of relying on 100% of the isomerization at boil start. Again, no actual hops should be boiled:

1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.



^The majority of these hops are very piney, dank(marijuana), and full of pungent grapefruit. Centennial is really the only somewhat fruity hop. I am open to minor tweaks if you guys attempt this beer and are familiar with what these hops bring to the table.

is this the most accurate version of cloning Heady. Sorry if i may be asking a question that may have been answered already... I have been away for a while. Thanks in advance.... Cheers gents and gals

 

[simontja]

I just cultured a Conan starter from a heady can and pitched it into an IPA Monday- mine smelled similar minus the sulfur- when I pitched it it smelled like a strong yeast smell- semi hefe like but I attributed that to the starter being warm. Fermentation doesn't usually smell good so I bet you will be fine

Fermented out now and the beer is ready, it's like a hopfenweisse. I fermented it at 63F, it fermented out in 2 days, then i let it sit at 66. Strong hefe aroma.

 

[Brizzo]

Fermented out now and the beer is ready, it's like a hopfenweisse. I fermented it at 63F, it fermented out in 2 days, then i let it sit at 66. Strong hefe aroma.

I have an ipa made with a Conan starter (ramped up twice) that is doing the same thing, fermented at 64, lots of phenolic flavors, almost banana like, hopfenweisse I'd a great descriptor. I am cold crashing it to hopefully get some of that yeast to drop out and reduce the off flavors. First time in 12 years of brewing this has ever happened

 

[simontja]

I have an ipa made with a Conan starter (ramped up twice) that is doing the same thing, fermented at 64, lots of phenolic flavors, almost banana like, hopfenweisse I'd a great descriptor. I am cold crashing it to hopefully get some of that yeast to drop out and reduce the off flavors. First time in 12 years of brewing this has ever happened

My can was from June, maybe we got the same cans? I noticed it right on, no real peach, just banana, light sulphur, and clove. Mine finished 1.012 from 1.074 - in 3 days at 63f.

 

[Brizzo]

I think that's when mine was from too. Weird

 

[brewski09]

Probably a late generation then

 

[The_Glue]

Will this beer taste different without Hopshot? (regular hops of the same IBU instead of hopshots)

 

[brewski09]

Will this beer taste different without Hopshot? (regular hops of the same IBU instead of hopshots)

You'll have to account for the hops absorbing liquid (or have way less volume). Supposedly hop shot is made with CTZ and you can reasonably approximate it with those hops. Full disclosure, I've never tried nor have I had a beer where someone tried. I'd probably just get hop shot.

 

[The_Glue]

You'll have to account for the hops absorbing liquid (or have way less volume). Supposedly hop shot is made with CTZ and you can reasonably approximate it with those hops. Full disclosure, I've never tried nor have I had a beer where someone tried. I'd probably just get hop shot.

So using real hops won't make the beer more astringent/vegetal/grassy etc. than the hop shot version? (I've seen this opinion here and there) Could I use isomerized hop extract instead of hopshot?
The isomerized hop extract I can buy is much cheaper than real hops per IBU added. Also I cant really get Hopshots here.

 

[1fast636]

I just used some Conan in my harvest ale that I cultured from a can and got that same banana clove aroma and flavor thank got my wet hop absorbed a lot of beer because it was like 3 gals into the keg so I can kill the keg quick with small pours here and there

 

[TheHairyHop]

So using real hops won't make the beer more astringent/vegetal/grassy etc. than the hop shot version? (I've seen this opinion here and there) Could I use isomerized hop extract instead of hopshot?
The isomerized hop extract I can buy is much cheaper than real hops per IBU added. Also I cant really get Hopshots here.

if you use some super high alpha known-to-be-smooth bittering hops like warrior, you won't taste anything. Especially with the ungodly amount of hops that a lot of these recipes have

 

[TheHairyHop]

My can was from June, maybe we got the same cans? I noticed it right on, no real peach, just banana, light sulphur, and clove. Mine finished 1.012 from 1.074 - in 3 days at 63f.

did you can have those flavors?

 

[brewski09]

So using real hops won't make the beer more astringent/vegetal/grassy etc. than the hop shot version? (I've seen this opinion here and there) Could I use isomerized hop extract instead of hopshot?

The isomerized hop extract I can buy is much cheaper than real hops per IBU added. Also I cant really get Hopshots here.

I haven't done this myself so I'm not sure but it's worth a test (maybe not with this beer and all the hops - something lower cost/risk?)

 

[Rhaegar92]

Given the sheer immensity of this thread, does anyone have the current, closest clone to Heady? I'm going to do alot of digging, but if someone can just post the current best clone that'd be fantastic! I'm going to try to synthesize it all together and eventually make my own clone.