Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[Braufessor]

I brewed this up last night into this morning. Pitched yeast about 420am... so it's been about 15 hours or so. How's my wort look? No movement on the airlock yet. This pic was taken about 1.5 hrs ago so it is 14 hrs in. This is my first batch in 4 years so I forgot how patient I need to be for krusen to develop. It does seem like a lot of trub though.

The trub level in this beer is going to be high.... no getting around that with all the hops. To be honest, I am usually happy if I can get 4.5 gallons into the keg when it is all said and done.

How much yeast did you pitch?

 

[lzrdkng14]

I pitched a full pack of giga yeast vermont. I did start to get some minor airlock activity tonight. Then I had to switch to another airlock so I could fit it in my (new) fermentation fridge. I can tell is starting to move a bit. I'm guessing by tomorrow it will really get going. Temp in my basement was about 68, but now I've got it at about 62-64...

View attachment 1437964485877.jpg

 

[g-star]

That is a massive amount of trub. Whirlpooling and some kind of filtration during run-off would help with that.

Conan is a very fast starter at the correct pitch rate...it should have been roaring along by 8hrs. Seems like you didn't pitch enough healthy yeast.

 

[lzrdkng14]

That is a massive amount of trub. Whirlpooling and some kind of filtration during run-off would help with that.

Conan is a very fast starter at the correct pitch rate...it should have been roaring along by 8hrs. Seems like you didn't pitch enough healthy yeast.

I did use one of these Bazooka screens to filter things out a bit. But I think having some the hoppy trub in there will help with the flavor. But, I did not whirlpool as well as I would have liked. It was 3:30am so I may have rushed through it a bit.

In any case, here is a pic from this morning after about 10 hours in the 63F ferm chamber and with very active airlock...

 

[Braufessor]

I did use one of these Bazooka screens to filter things out a bit. But I think having some the hoppy trub in there will help with the flavor. But, I did not whirlpool as well as I would have liked. It was 3:30am so I may have rushed through it a bit.

In any case, here is a pic from this morning after about 10 hours in the 63F ferm chamber and with very active airlock...

Looks like it is rolling along great.

 

[rustedbucket]

I did a 10 batch last week, I used the recipe I originally posted on page 297 but followed Bobbrew's hop additions from the same page.

I fermented in two buckets and pitched raw liquid GigaYeast (1.5 packs per bucket). I transferred to secondary yesterday and brought the temp from 63 (first week) to 69 (second week). Color looked great, smelled good, but still had that fermentation smell interfering.

My OG was low at a 1.068 and my gravity at transfer was a 1.020; neither airlock was particularly active (one never bubbled at all). I've read first gen Conan has a hard time getting going, will be using a starter for sure. I'm sure it didn't help that I forgot to add yeast nutrient....

Either way, Sat. will mark the start of dry hopping, four days/four days following Bob's proportions.

Here's to hoping!

Cheers!

 

[rustedbucket]

This might be old news, but I was doing a little digging today and discovered this:

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/09/how-many-hop-varieties-are-in-best-ipas.html

It was posted in 2013 (like I said, old) and it lists what were considered the best double IPAs at the time. Next to each/most beer, the hops used within the ales were listed; Heady is listed as hop extract, Simcoe, Apollo, Columbus, Amarillo, and Centennial.

While I cannot attest for the accuracy of the thread, perhaps some of the more experienced connoisseurs will be able to identify if the other beers listed are accurate. If so, it might lend reliability to the additions that are listed with Heady.

I'm not an advanced brewer, I've only been doing it (helping with it) since September, I've also never had a real Heady. The closest I got was my brother, who has had Heady, trying my batch and him saying, "This is great, but it ain't Heady!"). But from what I've gathered, Columbus adds the onion-y that exists and can also be responsible for the dankness that everyone has mentioned.

Perhaps more Columbus and less, or no Comet, and Amarillo in Comet's place?

Thoughts?

 

[g-star]

Perhaps more Columbus and less, or no Comet, and Amarillo in Comet's place?

Thoughts?

I think you're trying to hit a moving target.

The quality of Columbus can vary greatly, and it stores poorly. Considering that and homebrewers are getting the left-overs after all the pro brewer contracts have been filled, it may be difficult to ever get the hop profile exactly right. Not to mention differences in hop crops from year to year, terrior, etc.

I just did a clone and used Simcoe/Amarillo/Chinook/Centennial/Columbus. No Apollo or Comet. I've had the real HT several times and as recently as 2 months ago. My clone was what I would consdier fairly close, but not *exact*. I don't think it is possible to get this beer cloned exactly.

 

[Braufessor]

I think you're trying to hit a moving target.


I just did a clone and used Simcoe/Amarillo/Chinook/Centennial/Columbus. No Apollo or Comet. I've had the real HT several times and as recently as 2 months ago. My clone was what I would consdier fairly close, but not *exact*. I don't think it is possible to get this beer cloned exactly.

I have to say I agree..... I have had dozens of cans of Heady. I have brewed this and variations of it at least 6 times. I would not consider any of them even in the ball park to be honest. Personally, I think the hops you have above are probably closer than some of the things like Apollo or Comet. Not sure about the Chinook..... and not sure about amarillo..... But, Columbus seems to be the most recognizable one to me.... and centennial and Simcoe as well.

All the beers I brewed were good DIPA's - but I would say the hopping was not what I would consider close to Heady.

 

[TxBigHops]

I did a 10 batch last week, I used the recipe I originally posted on page 297 but followed Bobbrew's hop additions from the same page.

I fermented in two buckets and pitched raw liquid GigaYeast (1.5 packs per bucket). I transferred to secondary yesterday and brought the temp from 63 (first week) to 69 (second week). Color looked great, smelled good, but still had that fermentation smell interfering.

My OG was low at a 1.068 and my gravity at transfer was a 1.020; neither airlock was particularly active (one never bubbled at all). I've read first gen Conan has a hard time getting going, will be using a starter for sure. I'm sure it didn't help that I forgot to add yeast nutrient....

Either way, Sat. will mark the start of dry hopping, four days/four days following Bob's proportions.

Here's to hoping!

Cheers!

I'm curious, why did you rack to secondary at 1.020 after just one week on the yeast? Gravity seems high, as if it might not have been done yet, and I would think the beer would have benefited by spending more time on the yeast cake.

And FYI, when you're referencing other posts, please use the post number rather than the page number, as the number of posts per page is a user option. I have mine set at 40 per page, so for me there are only 81 pages in this entire thread.

 

[rustedbucket]

I'm curious, why did you rack to secondary at 1.020 after just one week on the yeast? Gravity seems high, as if it might not have been done yet, and I would think the beer would have benefited by spending more time on the yeast cake.

And FYI, when you're referencing other posts, please use the post number rather than the page number, as the number of posts per page is a user option. I have mine set at 40 per page, so for me there are only 81 pages in this entire thread.

To start, I pitched at too high a temp, forgot nutrient, and am fairly certain I didn't aerated enough. It had slowed drastically at 20 (per reads) and I have empty kegs that need filling. It won't be the best, but it will be drinkable; it'll be the wetter, sessions HT Clone.

I'm familiar with quoting post numbers and have done it in the past. But the post I'm referring to I assumed was common knowledge as it's been the most discussed recipe of late.

 

[lzrdkng14]

need some help guys. my motivation for getting my brewery setup and getting this batch brewed is that I am going to a music festival with my brothers, leaving the night of Aug 20th. Obviously a nice DIPA would be perfect for this type of trip and I was planning on filling some growlers up for the occasion.

But, that does not give me much time...I brewed the night of July 25 and pitched yeast about 4am July 26th. roughly 25 days until we leave for this trip.

The recipe schedule I am following says dry hop at 8 days and 16 days...and the sched on page 1 says every 7 days.

So here is what I am thinking

July 26 @ 4am - Primary Ferm started
Aug 2 @ 10pm - Add Dry hop #1
Aug 9 @ 10pm - Move to secondary and add dry hop #2
Aug 15 @ 10pm - Move to Keg and start at 25psi
Aug 16 @ 10pm - Lower to 20 psi
Aug 17 @ 10pm - Lower to 15 psi
Aug 18 @ 10pm - Lower to 10 psi
Aug 20 @ 8pm - pour growlers and hit the road

Any thoughts? I am obviously sacrificing some ferm/dry hop time for some carb time... any thing you would do different under the circumstance?

Thanks, here is my latest ferm shot taken this morning, the yeast is popping!

 

[Braufessor]

need some help guys. my motivation for getting my brewery setup and getting this batch brewed is that I am going to a music festival with my brothers, leaving the night of Aug 20th. Obviously a nice DIPA would be perfect for this type of trip and I was planning on filling some growlers up for the occasion.

But, that does not give me much time...I brewed the night of July 25 and pitched yeast about 4am July 26th. roughly 25 days until we leave for this trip.

The recipe schedule I am following says dry hop at 8 days and 16 days...and the sched on page 1 says every 7 days.

So here is what I am thinking

July 26 @ 4am - Primary Ferm started
Aug 2 @ 10pm - Add Dry hop #1
Aug 9 @ 10pm - Move to secondary and add dry hop #2
Aug 15 @ 10pm - Move to Keg and start at 25psi
Aug 16 @ 10pm - Lower to 20 psi
Aug 17 @ 10pm - Lower to 15 psi
Aug 18 @ 10pm - Lower to 10 psi
Aug 20 @ 8pm - pour growlers and hit the road

Any thoughts? I am obviously sacrificing some ferm/dry hop time for some carb time... any thing you would do different under the circumstance?

Thanks, here is my latest ferm shot taken this morning, the yeast is popping!

I think you look good on this.
Here is something I have been doing with some recent beers, with a double dry hop - and it has worked GREAT.
*Dry hop 1 in primary around day 5-7 (like you are)
*Transfer around day 12 or so to a dry-hopping keg I use for Dry hop #2. I make that a short dry hop of about 3 days and then I jump it to final keg (CO2 purged), under pressure, no oxygen. This method: http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html

Been really happy with this method. Allows for racking very clean beer into final keg after very heavy dry-hopping.

 

[m00ps]

I think you look good on this.
Here is something I have been doing with some recent beers, with a double dry hop - and it has worked GREAT.
*Dry hop 1 in primary around day 5-7 (like you are)
*Transfer around day 12 or so to a dry-hopping keg I use for Dry hop #2. I make that a short dry hop of about 3 days and then I jump it to final keg (CO2 purged), under pressure, no oxygen. This method: http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html

Been really happy with this method. Allows for racking very clean beer into final keg after very heavy dry-hopping.

Do you just go dip tube to dip tube? A piece of tubing with 2 ball lock liquid QDs Im guessing?

So you just have both pressurized (low psi?) and purged and then vent the serving kegs pressure so it drop while keeping the gas on the dry hop keg?

 

[Braufessor]

Do you just go dip tube to dip tube? A piece of tubing with 2 ball lock liquid QDs Im guessing?

So you just have both pressurized (low psi?) and purged and then vent the serving kegs pressure so it drop while keeping the gas on the dry hop keg?

Yep. Just like you described. Need to make sure you have a good filter on the dip tube of the dry hop keg. I use a stainless mesh sleeve (like you would use in an igloo cooler mash tun) that fits snugly around the dip tube, then I also have one of those ss dry hop tubes like in the picture that goes around that..... So it is kind of a double filter. Plus, few hops really get that mesh tube anyway. Great way to dryhop and filter out the hops without plugging everything up though. Plus, really helps decrease oxygen pickup.

 

[lzrdkng14]

Yep. Just like you described. Need to make sure you have a good filter on the dip tube of the dry hop keg. I use a stainless mesh sleeve (like you would use in an igloo cooler mash tun) that fits snugly around the dip tube, then I also have one of those ss dry hop tubes like in the picture that goes around that..... So it is kind of a double filter. Plus, few hops really get that mesh tube anyway. Great way to dryhop and filter out the hops without plugging everything up though. Plus, really helps decrease oxygen pickup.

How about one of thesehttp://m.ebay.com/itm/Homebrew-Hops...ane-Dip-Tube-Filter-Dry-Hopping-/281398524622

 

[Braufessor]

That looks like it would work pretty well.

 

[lzrdkng14]

That looks like it would work pretty well.

Thinking I'd use that in conjunction with my bazooka screen. Hopefully One fits inside the other.

As for the kegs... I don't have any, but need to buy at least one. Going pin lock since my fermentation fridge is going to double as a make shift kegerator for the time being. I do, however, have a 5 lb co2 tank and single outlet regulator. Will that allow me to transfer beer from keg to keg, assuming I buy 2 and have a couple sets of pin lock fittings?

 

[Braufessor]

Thinking I'd use that in conjunction with my bazooka screen. Hopefully One fits inside the other.

As for the kegs... I don't have any, but need to buy at least one. Going pin lock since my fermentation fridge is going to double as a make shift kegerator for the time being. I do, however, have a 5 lb co2 tank and single outlet regulator. Will that allow me to transfer beer from keg to keg, assuming I buy 2 and have a couple sets of pin lock fittings?

Should be good..... that is basically what I do. Dry hop keg, Receiving keg. 5lb CO2 tank. liquid out to liquid out. I put the dry hop keg up a bit higher with the Co2 hooked up to it. Put the receiving keg (purged) lower and open the vent. I stand by close, ready to pull off the liquid disconnect when it gets toward the end just so it doesn't blow CO2 through the dip tube at the end when the beer runs out..... not a huge deal, but I try to unhook right away.

 

[batty]

need some help guys. my motivation for getting my brewery setup and getting this batch brewed is that I am going to a music festival with my brothers, leaving the night of Aug 20th. Obviously a nice DIPA would be perfect for this type of trip and I was planning on filling some growlers up for the occasion.

But, that does not give me much time...I brewed the night of July 25 and pitched yeast about 4am July 26th. roughly 25 days until we leave for this trip.

The recipe schedule I am following says dry hop at 8 days and 16 days...and the sched on page 1 says every 7 days.

So here is what I am thinking

July 26 @ 4am - Primary Ferm started
Aug 2 @ 10pm - Add Dry hop #1
Aug 9 @ 10pm - Move to secondary and add dry hop #2
Aug 15 @ 10pm - Move to Keg and start at 25psi
Aug 16 @ 10pm - Lower to 20 psi
Aug 17 @ 10pm - Lower to 15 psi
Aug 18 @ 10pm - Lower to 10 psi
Aug 20 @ 8pm - pour growlers and hit the road

Any thoughts? I am obviously sacrificing some ferm/dry hop time for some carb time... any thing you would do different under the circumstance?

Why not use a keg as a secondary / second dry hop vessel and start the gas on at the same time? If you are just using a hop bag just open up the keg and take them out, and you have a few day head start on carbonation.

If doing the keg-transfer method mentioned I think you could still do this, just watch out for foaming issues.

 

[lzrdkng14]

Why not use a keg as a secondary / second dry hop vessel and start the gas on at the same time? If you are just using a hop bag just open up the keg and take them out, and you have a few day head start on carbonation.

If doing the keg-transfer method mentioned I think you could still do this, just watch out for foaming issues.

That was kind of what I was thinking. Does adding gas affect the dry hopping effectiveness at all?

 

[Braufessor]

Why not use a keg as a secondary / second dry hop vessel and start the gas on at the same time? If you are just using a hop bag just open up the keg and take them out, and you have a few day head start on carbonation.

If doing the keg-transfer method mentioned I think you could still do this, just watch out for foaming issues.

The foaming issue is what I would be a bit concerned about.

I have found short(2-4 day) dry hops in the keg for a second dry hop are great. I really don't think you get anything that you want out of a dry hop after 3-4 days. If you want a bit more carbing time, I would knock a bit of time off the duration of the dry hops.

 

[rustedbucket]

Removed by poster

 

[lzrdkng14]

You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.



HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness and/or contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed. No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either. Additionally, I'm in favor of a 148-149 F, 90 minute mash and substituting about 4-5% turbinado for base malt to aid dryness. The water profile is also extremely important.

If I were to clone again, I would advise gaining some IBUs during the whirlpool instead of relying on 100% of the isomerization at boil start. Again, no actual hops should be boiled:

1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.



^The majority of these hops are very piney, dank(marijuana), and full of pungent grapefruit. Centennial is really the only somewhat fruity hop. I am open to minor tweaks if you guys attempt this beer and are familiar with what these hops bring to the table.

I have built this recipe in beersmith. I just started using this program, so if there are mistakes, I apologize...

View attachment heady-topper-clone-hbt-bobbrews.bsmx

 

[sweetcell]

No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either.

right, but the real HT is brewed on a huge commercial system. what works for a 50 barrel batch rarely does for 5 gallons. knock-out takes a lot longer, the whole volume won't even out at 180 for some time, etc.

what's the source for saying no hops are boiled? certainly make sense that a lot of the hops are in the whirlpool, but i find it surprising that none of them are boiled or even at flame-out.

Two-Stage Dry Hop

what is the process here - split each hops amount, half for first DH and second half for other DH?

after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary

i would advise against racking to secondary - too much O2 pickup. kimmich is a stickler for this. i'm pretty sure HT is made in uni-tanks, so it's not racked.

 

[trimixdiver1]

20bbl system

John says no hops other than extract in the video on YouTube.

Uses conical fermenters

 

[brewski09]

No racking commercially but the yeast and trub can be removed from the conicals so you don't need to. A homebrewer may need to rack this to get the best results for their system.

 

[lzrdkng14]

I think you look good on this.
Here is something I have been doing with some recent beers, with a double dry hop - and it has worked GREAT.
*Dry hop 1 in primary around day 5-7 (like you are)
*Transfer around day 12 or so to a dry-hopping keg I use for Dry hop #2. I make that a short dry hop of about 3 days and then I jump it to final keg (CO2 purged), under pressure, no oxygen. This method: http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html

Been really happy with this method. Allows for racking very clean beer into final keg after very heavy dry-hopping.

This is what I am going to do... I am transferring from carboy to pin lock keg tomorrow, using co2 and this method: http://www.metabrewing.com/2014/08/avoiding-oxygen-when-kegging-co2.html

Question I have is whether I should do a 24 hour cold crash before hand? I know HT is not the clearest of beers, so thinking it might take away from the flavor to cold crash.... thoughts?

 

[Braufessor]

This is what I am going to do... I am transferring from carboy to pin lock keg tomorrow, using co2 and this method: http://www.metabrewing.com/2014/08/avoiding-oxygen-when-kegging-co2.html

Question I have is whether I should do a 24 hour cold crash before hand? I know HT is not the clearest of beers, so thinking it might take away from the flavor to cold crash.... thoughts?

Personally, I don't cold crash. I do put my fermenter up on a counter for a day or two to remain, undisturbed..... that way the yeast has largely settled out and I don't end up transferring a lot of debris.

 

[Hujo]

There are a lot of processes that you should try to replicate if you're set on not boiling any hops, just because "that's how they do it". They also transfer from whirlpool with co2, stop run off at high gravity, single stage dryhop, etc... I'm with sweetcell, it's not about the process, it's about the results.