Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[TheHairyHop]

To each his own. If you Google "hop that tastes like onion", Summit seems to be the bad guy in town. I'm sure that, when used with discretion, it's a nice flavor to most people, but I think my sensitivity to that particular compound is so high that I can't stand any use of it. Upslope makes an IIPA that I get a boatload of that flavor as well, but I'm not too sure what they hop it with.

I've heard some people get it with Apollo as well, but I made an Apollo smash and didn't get any of the flavor. Perhaps that's also a concentration/application scenario.

 

[1fast636]

I assume you used the recipe on page 1? If so, did you use TF CaraMalt? I ask because Simpons CaraMalt is around 40L and could be a reason why your clone is so dark. TF CaraMalt is around 10L.

I got the kit from farmhouse grains all came crushed and measured so who knows what they had in there but pretty sure they are going off of the recipe on the first page, next brew here soon will be using bobs recipe altho the aroma was on point flavor was missing something so revamp with the comet additions can't wait and have a feeling even if it's not heady not going to care because this is one of the best dipas I brewed it's just missing some dankness right now lol

 

[trimixdiver1]

Are you guys still doing a 30min whirlpool?

 

[lbond2]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1430956800.694565.jpg

Is this enough dry hops!!!![emoji13]

 

[trimixdiver1]

Nice

 

[fellatamas182]

Just out of curiosity what's everyone carbing it at? I was thinking around 2.3-2.4 vol for 5 gal keg four days left of dry hopping till I see how this one goes used the most recent recipe from bob but substituted summit for Apollo in a pinch

 

[BeerGrylls]

I like this in the 2.4-2.5 range.

 

[doomXsaloon]

I got mine through Norcal..... 1lb nitrogen flushed bags of pellets. they are not the easiest hop to find.

I did throw an ounce and a half in a recent pale ale (with Citra/Centennial/Cascade). I could see where it is a hop that could get away from you..... but it definitely added something to the beer, and the keg was empty 18 days after I brewed the beer - it was a great beer.

18 days after BREWING!? Or kegging??
Back when thread started, thought HT was 28 days grain to glass... What schedule are you all using? Dry hopping while carbing?
For most pales and IPAs, I do at least 2 weeks primary, avg 5 days DH, then 2 weeks carb; and then it often tastes best days after that...

 

[trimixdiver1]

From Kimmich, it's 3 weeks from grain to can

 

[doomXsaloon]

Thanks. Do we know how that breaks down-primary, DH, carb?
And how this would look for the humble home brewer?

 

[Braufessor]

18 days after BREWING!? Or kegging??
Back when thread started, thought HT was 28 days grain to glass... What schedule are you all using? Dry hopping while carbing?
For most pales and IPAs, I do at least 2 weeks primary, avg 5 days DH, then 2 weeks carb; and then it often tastes best days after that...

That was not a direct Heady clone attempt. It was just a 5.5% pale ale I brewed, using a 7 ounce hop stand at the end of the boil. I used some comet in it (As it was a new suggested hop). No dry hop at all. Basically a really big, long (1-1.5 hour) hop stand. No dry hop. 10-12 day primary. Keg, carb and drink. That particular batch was so good that it was gone in less than a week from kegging - 18 days from brew day.

 

[geoffey]

I've been finding that beers I do with hopstands hit their peak at 4-6 weeks. That's pretty interesting to hear yours was so good at 12-18 days. The latest one I did was also 5.5%abv, but with a 5oz 30 min steep and a 3oz dry hop. It was NOT that good at 12-18 days, but at day 26 turned freaking amazing.

 

[Braufessor]

I've been finding that beers I do with hopstands hit their peak at 4-6 weeks. That's pretty interesting to hear yours was so good at 12-18 days. The latest one I did was also 5.5%abv, but with a 5oz 30 min steep and a 3oz dry hop. It was NOT that good at 12-18 days, but at day 26 turned freaking amazing.

That one might have been better with a couple more weeks if I (and my wife, and my friends) could have kept away from it for a bit longer..... it was the only hoppy beer I had at the time though - it never stood a chance

I have 2 new versions on tap now that are also great drinkers - they have a chance of seeing 4-5 weeks old since I have 5 gallons of each I may never dry hop a beer again.

 

[geoffey]

I may never dry hop a beer again.

Uh... That's blasphemy or something.

Look out for lightening strikes.

 

[bobbrews]

The dry hop is supremely important in an IPA. Every single award winning commercial IPA out there (that we have a clone for or recipe specifics instead of educated guesses) defines the dry hop as the heaviest hop addition with as much as 40-50% total recipe hops designated for the dry hop slot (on average).

Don't skip the dryhop.
...Don't skip the hopstand either. Do both, but realize that the dry hop is more important for this style.

 

[pmcint01]

Do you guys just use Sugar in the Raw for the turbinado?

 

[Braufessor]

The dry hop is supremely important in an IPA. Every single award winning commercial IPA out there (that we have a clone for or recipe specifics instead of educated guesses) defines the dry hop as the heaviest hop addition with as much as 40-50% total recipe hops designated for the dry hop slot (on average).

Don't skip the dryhop.
...Don't skip the hopstand either. Do both, but realize that the dry hop is more important for this style.

Yeah - I know. I have just been so happy with recent hoppy beers where I have went with big hopstands and no dry hop that I am having a hard time convincing myself to go back to dry hopping. School is done in a couple weeks, and then I will have more time - I am planning on doing some side-by-sides at that point with the changes I have made to my APA/IPA brewing. One of the first things I plan to do is brew the same beer and then compare big hopstand only to smaller hopstand and bigger dry hop (just as you are outlining).
I do agree that there are no great IPA's that are not dry hopped....

 

[pickles]

Braufessor - any chance you'd post the recipe for this non-dry hopped beer?

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

The recipe on page 1 is over 2 years old and not a clone for Heady Topper. Page 1 is fairly accurate, but recent tweaks from veteran brewers have honed in on a more precise and sensical recipe. Read the past 20 pages or so for an idea of how the page 1 recipe should be tweaked for better accuracy.

Page 1 recipe WAS the clone for heady before kimmich had to resort to using whatever hops he can get his hands on. IMO better than recent batches he has been putting out.

FWIW, I brewed that recipe and a local nano brewed it on their 3bbl system is was such a hit.

 

[EyePeeA]

Page 1 recipe WAS the clone for heady before kimmich had to resort to using whatever hops he can get his hands on. IMO better than recent batches he has been putting out.

It was never "the clone"... just a series of educated guesses and he said, she said commentary... Basically the reason why it was close, but no cigar.

 

[Braufessor]

Braufessor - any chance you'd post the recipe for this non-dry hopped beer?

Check post 243 in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=443295&page=25

**Not a heady clone by any means.

I am still playing around a bit with the water (lower sulfate some and increasing chloride some).

This particular version was all citra.... But, I have brewed the exact same beer, with the same basic hop schedule, but switching the varieties (like 1/3 citra/Centennial/Cascade mix at all the additions for example).

Been using 5-7 ounces in the hop stand addition.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Check post 243 in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=443295&page=25

**Not a heady clone by any means.

I am still playing around a bit with the water (lower sulfate some and increasing chloride some).

This particular version was all citra.... But, I have brewed the exact same beer, with the same basic hop schedule, but switching the varieties (like 1/3 citra/Centennial/Cascade mix at all the additions for example).

Been using 5-7 ounces in the hop stand addition.

I love flameout/hop steeps, but they just don't add the same flavor profile as a dry hop. Cold applications will taste different than hot applications of the same hop. To me, hot applications tend to have a "juicier" characteristic in most bold American hops

 

[bobbrews]

You can't go wrong with the HWC method for an IIPA. You get the most the hops have to offer at various temperature ranges...

Hot (Single Kettle Addition) - Big bittering charge added to a full rolling boil. Hop Extract (HopShot) is the best choice.
Warm (Dual Hopstand Addition) - Flameout charge for isomerization + another addition at 160F to retain the delicate compounds. 25-40% recipe hops by weight.
Cold (Dual Dryhop Addition) - Two stage, 4-5 day dryhop for each stage. 40-50% recipe hops by weight.

 

[irishrover32]

You can't go wrong with the HWC method for an IIPA. You get the most the hops have to offer at various temperature ranges...

Hot (Single Kettle Addition) - Big bittering charge added to a full rolling boil. Hop Extract (HopShot) is the best choice.
Warm (Dual Hopstand Addition) - Flameout charge for isomerization + another addition at 160F to retain the delicate compounds. 25-40% recipe hops by weight.
Cold (Dual Dryhop Addition) - Two stage, 4-5 day dryhop for each stage. 40-50% recipe hops by weight.

i wish someone informed me of this 2 years ago when i started brewing, im only now catching onto this by my own experimentation with fantastic results, its the ultimate blue print for hoppy beers

 

[gotbags-10]

So say I were to do the HWC method bobbrews. If I were to use 12 oz of hops and a hop shot. So hopshot at 60 min, 3 oz at FO, 3 oz at 160. Then 3 oz first dry hop, pull hop bag at 5 days then 3 more oz for another 5 days. Sound about right?

 

[bobbrews]

So say I were to do the HWC method bobbrews. If I were to use 12 oz of hops and a hop shot. So hopshot at 60 min, 3 oz at FO, 3 oz at 160. Then 3 oz first dry hop, pull hop bag at 5 days then 3 more oz for another 5 days. Sound about right?

That will work. Depending on the amount of HopShot you use, you might not even need a FO addition. You can simply add 5-6 oz. hops directly at 160-180 F and then follow that up with a 6-7 oz. two-stage dryhop.


For the hopstand, I like to stay within the 25-40% range of total recipe hops.

For the dryhop, it should be slightly larger in the 40-50% range.

^These ranges fall in line with the hopping schedule that many successful commercial breweries of IPAs/IIPAs follow.


Big hefty IIPAs that can handle all of those hops will lean toward the end of those target ranges. Smaller standard IPAs will be closer to the beginning of those ranges. Of course, the total amount of recipe hops is also a factor. I rarely brew IIPAs with less than 10-12 oz. total hops per 5 gallon batch. Standard IPAs can be good with only 7-8 oz. hops for the same volume.

 

[McUbermensch]

Do you guys just use Sugar in the Raw for the turbinado?

I did. The beer turned out great.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[reddskinnfan]

Here is mine, fresh out the fermentor. Tastes like dank grapefruit, without the dry hop.

Dry hop will be:

3 oz Simcoe
1.5 oz Centennial
1.5 oz Chinook
1.0 oz Columbus
1.0 oz Comet

Recipe was:

8 oz - Rice Hulls
23 lb - Optic Malt
3 lb - Flaked Wheat
1 lb - CaraRed
1 lb - Corn Sugar

8 g - Gypsum

20 ml - Apollo HopShot @ 60m (boil)
3 oz - Simcoe @ 40m (steep)
1.5 oz - Citra @ 40m (steep)
1.5 oz - Mosaic @ 40m (steep)
1.0 oz - Chinook @ 40m (steep)
1.0 oz - Summit @ 40m (steep)

Note: All steep hops added at flameout, then pot covered and naturally cooled for 40m before running through chiller.

3L starter - Vermont IPA (GigaYeast)

OG @ 1.072
FG @ 1.010

Oh, and if anyone is interested, here was my water profile:

75 ppm - Calcium
10 ppm - Magnesium
24 ppm - Sodium
113 ppm - Sulfate
44 ppm - Chloride
0 ppm - Bicarbonate

My pH numbers:

Mash pH - 5.4
Sparge pH - 5.5

And my final IBU/Color/ABV:

Calculated IBU - 140
SRM - 7
Measured ABV - 8.2%

View attachment 1431653905418.jpg

 

[1fast636]

Looks tasty and sounds even better

 

[kdw2pd]

Would CaraRed be an acceptable substitute for the TF CaraMalt in this beer? I'm ordering from Yakima Valley hops, which doesn't have CaraMalt, nor do any of the homebrew stores in my area. I could also grab some 10L.