Hating S-04?

[marchio-93]

Hello everybody, after 10 days conditioning my ipa:
4 g/L of Galaxy and Calypso,
fermented with s-04 at the temperature of 17.5°C, and for the last 4-5 days at 20°C,
I opened one bottle and I can't smell my hops, I just only smell a strong phenolic smell (near to alcolic/acid smell), the foam is very little and quickly disappear.
So I think it's impossible that with 4 g/L of hops I can't taste their smell! This phenolic by s-04 (I hope) will disappear because it is still not ready, or it will remain in the final beer?

 

[Dgallo]

Hello everybody, after 10 days conditioning my ipa:
4 g/L of Galaxy and Calypso,
fermented with s-04 at the temperature of 17.5°C, and for the last 4-5 days at 20°C,
I opened one bottle and I can't smell my hops, I just only smell a strong phenolic smell (near to alcolic/acid smell), the foam is very little and quickly disappear.
So I think it's impossible that with 4 g/L of hops I can't taste their smell! This phenolic by s-04 (I hope) will disappear because it is still not ready, or it will remain in the final beer?

Doesn’t sound like a healthy US-04 fermentation to me ifit produced phenol. We would need some more information about your pitch rate, grainbill, gravities, and process to really help. But to me if your pitchrate was fine, you stayed within the temp range you mentioned, and you held FG for 3 days to clean up, I’d lean more to infection

 

[marchio-93]

Doesn’t sound like a healthy US-04 fermentation to me ifit produced phenol. We would need some more information about your pitch rate, grainbill, gravities, and process to really help. But to me if your pitchrate was fine, you stayed within the temp range you mentioned, and you held FG for 3 days to clean up, I’d lean more to infection

Recipe:

Pale Ale 50%
Wheat 25%
Crystal 8%
Vienna 8%
Sugar 8%

OG 1042, FG 1005, 11,5g of S-04 for 13 L batch

Fermentation: 5 days 17.5°, 5 days 20°, 2 days 8°, (3 days of dry hopping).

All my equipment washed with bleach, water, and then chemioxi pro. Could be maybe some residue of bleach that give off-flavours?

 

[thehaze]

It's not the bleach. With an OG of 1.042 and a FG of 1.005, you are looking at 88% apparent attenuation. That is way beyond what S-04 is capable of fermenting. A more adequate FG for that beer would have been 1.010-1.011 giving you roughly 75% AA, which is what S-04 can do ( + / - 1-2% ).

You are looking at an infection or cross contamination with some other yeast ( with the ability to consume more dextrins over time and will attenuate far greater than S-04 ).

 

[marchio-93]

It's not the bleach. With an OG of 1.042 and a FG of 1.005, you are looking at 88% apparent attenuation. That is way beyond what S-04 is capable of fermenting. A more adequate FG for that beer would have been 1.010-1.011 giving you roughly 75% AA, which is what S-04 can do ( + / - 1-2% ).

You are looking at an infection or cross contamination with some other yeast ( with the ability to consume more dextrins over time and will attenuate far greater than S-04 ).

10% of grist was sugar, so I think that high attenuation it's possible! I mashed at 62°C

 

[Dgallo]

10% of grist was sugar, so I think that high attenuation it's possible! I mashed at 62°C

Well all I can tell you is if your fermentation temps remained with the temps you stated and you pitched the right amount of cells, than you did not pick up the phdnolithic profile from us04

 

[thehaze]

Even with 10% sugar or more, you wouldn't have gotten that attenuation. Mashing low will make a more fermentable wort, sure, but you need to mash for a looong time. I regularly mash at 64C / 147F for 90 minutes and if I were to mash even lower, I would have to mash for at least 120 minutes to get proper conversion.

S-04 is not phenolic. It is tart however and does produce more lactic acid, which in some beers, can be rather up front. An alcohol smell could also mean fusel alcohols, but your fermentation temp. was fine.

Good luck. CXheers.

 

[marchio-93]

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[marchio-93]

Even with 10% sugar or more, you wouldn't have gotten that attenuation. Mashing low will make a more fermentable wort, sure, but you need to mash for a looong time. I regularly mash at 64C / 147F for 90 minutes and if I were to mash even lower, I would have to mash for at least 120 minutes to get proper conversion.

S-04 is not phenolic. It is tart however and does produce more lactic acid, which in some beers, can be rather up front. An alcohol smell could also mean fusel alcohols, but your fermentation temp. was fine.

Good luck. CXheers.

Excuse me I didn't get this part, I write from Italy and it's a bit difficult to me, can you explain in other words? With "it is tart" I understand "it is a cake" [emoji23]. And what do you mean with fusel alcohols? And when does s04 give more lactic acid?

However my software calculated 1.007 for FG, so I'm not far away

 

[Miraculix]

Hello everybody, after 10 days conditioning my ipa:
4 g/L of Galaxy and Calypso,
fermented with s-04 at the temperature of 17.5°C, and for the last 4-5 days at 20°C,
I opened one bottle and I can't smell my hops, I just only smell a strong phenolic smell (near to alcolic/acid smell), the foam is very little and quickly disappear.
So I think it's impossible that with 4 g/L of hops I can't taste their smell! This phenolic by s-04 (I hope) will disappear because it is still not ready, or it will remain in the final beer?

This is an infection. S04 is non phenolic and you got phenols, so it must come from somewhere else. Also lack of foam can be a good indicator for an infection.

Something went wrong with your sanitation! Don't blame the yeast!

 

[thehaze]

Tart means slightly sour, so a more ( general ) pleasent " sourness " that in some beer styles can work well. Although I experienced the tartness from S-04 to me a bit more prevalent, with a sort of yoghurty, lactic taste. You can read a bit about fusel alcohol here: http://scottjanish.com/esters-and-fusel-alcohols/

S-04 tends to produce more lactic acid during fermentation, no matter the temperature, but I believe the perception of it will be higher with a warmer fermentation at 65-70F.

 

[Robert65]

I have found S-04 to produce a noticeably tart beer with an unusually low finished beer pH in the first generation, but in subsequent generations a normal pH and no such tartness. But it never approaches even 78%, let alone 88%, AA, even with a large proportion of invert syrup in the grist, nor any phenolic notes. I concur, infection.

 

[lablover]

I just made an IPA with SO4 and it turned out excellent. I fermented at 65 F for the first week. The OG was 1.067 and it finished with a slight malty sweetness that I love to balance out the hoppiness of my IPA's. It is clean with maybe a touch of ester fruitiness that is very subtle and complements the hops. I wouldn't blame your yeast. I understand that SO4 is used by quite a few commercial breweries as well.

 

[bucketnative]

Do you treat your water? Chlorine and chloramine are common tap water additives in the USA. If chlorine and chloramine are not removed from brew water, they can lead to the formation of chlorophenols... which taste/smell plasticky, like Band-Aids (plastic bandages). Even very low amounts (parts per billion level) can be tasted.

Residuals from bleach could also cause this.

 

[day_trippr]

Always loving S04 here, though admittedly I only use it on my imperial chocolate stout, where its characters are appreciated.

fwiw, I brewed an 11g batch Thursday, OG was 1.107, a bit over 72 hours later, with tightly controlled wort temperature between 66 and 67°F, and it has reached 1.026, right at the top of the advertised tolerance. After switching from blow-offs to S-locks they're just slowly burping now.

Mission accomplished

Cheers!

 

[marchio-93]

Do you treat your water? Chlorine and chloramine are common tap water additives in the USA. If chlorine and chloramine are not removed from brew water, they can lead to the formation of chlorophenols... which taste/smell plasticky, like Band-Aids (plastic bandages). Even very low amounts (parts per billion level) can be tasted.

Residuals from bleach could also cause this.

Finally thanks.

Guys my SOFTWARE, not my dreams calculated an FG of 1.007 okay?