Has my cider spoiled ?

[Scott Albrecht]

Hi all, I'm new here and new to home brewing. I bought a 6 Gal bucket of cider and made up 6 3/4 gal test jugs with various types and amounts of sugar and cinimon as an experiment to see what different tastes I would get. Each jug recieved 1/2 packet of champagne yeast 1 tsp yeast nutriant and 1/2 tsp of energizer. The cider shop said they do add just the slightest amount of preservative but just enough to keep it a bit longer, they said they had people use it for hard cider without issue. It took over a week to get started, but even then it was pitiful, so I added another 1/2 pack of champagne yeast, and my dad said it won't work without air so I removed the bubblers. At this point they did start to ferment so I let them go, but I'm about 4 weeks in and almost every jug has a about 1/4" of scum on top and not really any change day to day, no new fresh bubbles, has the cider spoiled ? Sorry this was so long !!
Scott

 

[Scott Albrecht]

 

[RPh_Guy]

Looks like yeast. It's called "krausen" and is perfectly normal for a healthy fermentation.

Cheers

 

[Scott Albrecht]

So should I just let it keep going? Will this Krausen drop out ? When should I start checking SG?

Thanks for your insight !!

 

[Scott Albrecht]

Also is it harmful to the cider to have no bubblers on top, just covered with a towel to keep everything out

 

[RPh_Guy]

It's OK to put an airlock on it now.

Personally I'd leave it alone and check gravity in 3-4 weeks.

 

[Scott Albrecht]

It's OK to put an airlock on it now.

Personally I'd leave it alone and check gravity in 3-4 weeks.

Ok thank you, RPh Guy

 

[MarkKF]

That always forms then gets broken up by CO2 then sinks in my cider.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Put it under an airlock of some kind ASAP, and you will probably be fine

 

[412CiderGuy]

Just a note that not all fermentations are aggressive. You see those little bubbles under the Krausen? You got something happening so I would just throw the airlock on and wait it out.

 

[madscientist451]

Cider likes to ferment itself without doing anything. I'm wondering how much preservative they added and what kind? Seems like 3 quarts of cider should have taken off pretty good with 1/2 packet of yeast.
Also, re-hydrating your yeast with the yeast energizer is a good practice. Don't add the yeast nutrient while re-hydrating. Cider doesn't really need yeast nutrient anyway.
Adding sugar doesn't help the taste. It boosts the alcohol and with the champagne yeast, it provides a "rocket fuel" flavor that takes a long time to settle down.
Everyone had different tastes and some people like the high alcohol flavor, so do what you like.
A little cinnamon goes a long way, its easy to overpower cider flavor with cinnamon.
You may want to find a juice supplier that doesn't add preservatives.
Your jugs of cider look somewhat funky from here, the fact that the fermentations were done open to the air could be a problem, maybe not.
Its hard to siphon cider from small jugs, 3 gallon carboys with 2-2.5 gallons of juice would work better. Then you could siphon to your 1 gallon jugs for aging.
With only 3 quarts of juice in a jug, when you siphon it off the lees in the bottom, you'll only get about 2 quarts, so that doesn't leave much for taking gravity/tasting samples.
If all those samples were mine, I'd probably cancel the experiment and pour 3 jugs into a 3 gallon carboy, see if it finishes and then rack it off to the 1 gallon jugs.
If your cider doesn't have the flavor you like, don't dump it unless its really nasty. Cider flavor changes with age and you can always blend it with something else. I recently opened some 3-4 year old cider that I had labeled "off flavors" and it had changed into something really good.

 

[Scott Albrecht]

Cider likes to ferment itself without doing anything. I'm wondering how much preservative they added and what kind? Seems like 3 quarts of cider should have taken off pretty good with 1/2 packet of yeast.
Also, re-hydrating your yeast with the yeast energizer is a good practice. Don't add the yeast nutrient while re-hydrating. Cider doesn't really need yeast nutrient anyway.
Adding sugar doesn't help the taste. It boosts the alcohol and with the champagne yeast, it provides a "rocket fuel" flavor that takes a long time to settle down.
Everyone had different tastes and some people like the high alcohol flavor, so do what you like.
A little cinnamon goes a long way, its easy to overpower cider flavor with cinnamon.
You may want to find a juice supplier that doesn't add preservatives.
Your jugs of cider look somewhat funky from here, the fact that the fermentations were done open to the air could be a problem, maybe not.
Its hard to siphon cider from small jugs, 3 gallon carboys with 2-2.5 gallons of juice would work better. Then you could siphon to your 1 gallon jugs for aging.
With only 3 quarts of juice in a jug, when you siphon it off the lees in the bottom, you'll only get about 2 quarts, so that doesn't leave much for taking gravity/tasting samples.
If all those samples were mine, I'd probably cancel the experiment and pour 3 jugs into a 3 gallon carboy, see if it finishes and then rack it off to the 1 gallon jugs.
If your cider doesn't have the flavor you like, don't dump it unless its really nasty. Cider flavor changes with age and you can always blend it with something else. I recently opened some 3-4 year old cider that I had labeled "off flavors" and it had changed into something really good.

Cider likes to ferment itself without doing anything. I'm wondering how much preservative they added and what kind? Seems like 3 quarts of cider should have taken off pretty good with 1/2 packet of yeast.
Also, re-hydrating your yeast with the yeast energizer is a good practice. Don't add the yeast nutrient while re-hydrating. Cider doesn't really need yeast nutrient anyway.
Adding sugar doesn't help the taste. It boosts the alcohol and with the champagne yeast, it provides a "rocket fuel" flavor that takes a long time to settle down.
Everyone had different tastes and some people like the high alcohol flavor, so do what you like.
A little cinnamon goes a long way, its easy to overpower cider flavor with cinnamon.
You may want to find a juice supplier that doesn't add preservatives.
Your jugs of cider look somewhat funky from here, the fact that the fermentations were done open to the air could be a problem, maybe not.
Its hard to siphon cider from small jugs, 3 gallon carboys with 2-2.5 gallons of juice would work better. Then you could siphon to your 1 gallon jugs for aging.
With only 3 quarts of juice in a jug, when you siphon it off the lees in the bottom, you'll only get about 2 quarts, so that doesn't leave much for taking gravity/tasting samples.
If all those samples were mine, I'd probably cancel the experiment and pour 3 jugs into a 3 gallon carboy, see if it finishes and then rack it off to the 1 gallon jugs.
If your cider doesn't have the flavor you like, don't dump it unless its really nasty. Cider flavor changes with age and you can always blend it with something else. I recently opened some 3-4 year old cider that I had labeled "off flavors" and it had changed into something really good.

Thank you for your insights, I'm just seeing your comment now. That batch ended up turning to vinegar on me, so I tried a new batch this fall, if you are interested I just posted about it, i have a white film on the top of one of my ciders.

 

[jseyfert3]

and my dad said it won't work without air so I removed the bubblers. At this point they did start to ferment so I let them go, but I'm about 4 weeks in and almost every jug has a about 1/4" of scum on top and not really any change day to day, no new fresh bubbles, has the cider spoiled ? Sorry this was so long !!

Thank you for your insights, I'm just seeing your comment now. That batch ended up turning to vinegar on me, so I tried a new batch this fall, if you are interested I just posted about it, i have a white film on the top of one of my ciders.

The yeast need oxygen for reproduction at the start of fermentation. After this initial reproduction phase the yeast do not need any additional oxygen during fermentation. For normal ABV levels (usually 5-6% for ciders without added sugar) you can get sufficient oxygen for healthy yeast by vigorously shaking capped bottles with some air space. With my cider I get juice in 1 gallon jugs, I pour a few cups into my carboy, cap and shake the jug before continuing to pour. I also try to pour into the funnel for the carboy in a way that splashes the most (without splashing out of the funnel entirely). In How to Brew the author states that oxygenation of wort can happen via pouring it back and forth between two sanitized buckets a few times. A lot of beer makers will use air stones to oxygenate wort. Either of these two methods could also be used if you don't buy juice in gallon jugs that can easily be shaken.

After this initial oxygenation oxygen should be avoided as much as possible. At the very least you need an airlock once fermentation starts slowing down, and should not wait until fermentation is done. If secondary fermentation is used, an airlock is 100% required and the secondary fermenter should be filled so to leave as little headspace as possible.

Oxygen after initial fermentation will cause oxidation, which will lead to undesirable off flavors in the finished cider (or beer, if you do beer as well). The bacteria that ferment ethanol into acetic acid (vinegar) are not anaerobic and cannot work without lots of oxygen. Batches left in primary fermenters that have had airlocks applied during all of the fermentation process and transferred to secondary fermenters with very little headspace and an airlock cannot turn into vinegar.