Has dry hopping infected my beer? (photo)

[john-NZ]

hi guys

I have been brewing an IPA recently, and everything was going fine. had a look inside and everything looked normal

after about 2.5 weeks in the fermenter, i decided to add 75g of hop pellets. I added these to a hop bag and put them in.

about 5 days later this is what it looked like.

Im concerned about the 'white' stuff on the surface, as I'm not sure what it is, and haven't seen it before. is this normal? does anyone recognise this as an infection?

Cheers, thanks for any advice

 

[shanecb]

How does it smell? It looks a lot like a lacto infection.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Did you sanitize the bag in any way, shape or form (boiling, sanitizer, soaked in vodka, something)? The hops themselves should be alright to just toss in due to their antimicrobial properties, but that certainly looks infected, and I'd say the bag is probably the source.

 

[te-wa]

rack all but last inch of beer, hopefully leaving all the infection on top (where it needs oxygen)
keg asap. or bottle..

 

[The Moravian]

Looks like the same stuff I get on the surface of sauerkraut brine. Lactobacillus.

 

[unionrdr]

Def looks like a lacto infection to me. I soak my hop sacks or grain bags (grain bags for whole leaf's larger volume) in starsan & wring out lightly before filling & dry hopping.

 

[davygoat2]

+1 for racking under it and bottle, I had a Stout in secondary that got snakeskinned like that, Lost my mind playing what if. bottled and it was fine.

 

[Math0]

It is quite rare to see an infection coming directly from the hops. Must be the bag.

You can wash your bag in the washing machine with clothes no problem, leave it to dry then put in a ziplock. Then before dry hopping leave it in starsan for a few minutes.

+1 on leaving a few inches on top. Try transfering slowly.

 

[BansheeRider]

Looks like break material to me....The hop oils clump up the proteins and drops them out of solution. This is normal IMO.

 

[unionrdr]

Not with that wrinkled white film on top. Definitely lacto or bret infection. Here's my worse version that started out the same;
http://[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/PICT0003_zps902eee48.jpg.html] [/URL]

 

[AlCophile]

I don't take any chances, as my brews represent TIME & MONEY!!!
Everything gets san'zd w/ 1-Step or Basic-A, no-rinse.
Btw, you can safely assume that any high-quality American Mfg'd product, wrapped at factory, is effectively sterile: Kleenex, Scott towels, etc. This is a HUGE convenience.
To 'dry' hop, rather, cold-hop, I sanitize with alcohol. NOOOOoooooo... not vodka; it's not strong enough. If your state allows 150-proof booze, such as Bacardi(?) 151 rum, that should do it. Soak the hops in as small amt. rum as to wet them only. Let em sit for a while. There IS the possibility that the booze may extract stuff you don't want, but that stuff may fall out of solution when in the beer. Experiment! I doubt there's a tongue among you that can tell any difference.
Don't san'ze hops with Basic-A or other, as the peroxygenated sterilant will undoubtedly damage the hop oils.

 

[unionrdr]

You don't need to sanitize or sterilize the hops. They are naturally astringent to start with. not to mention,pellet hops are dry & nasties need moisture, food & o2 to propogate. It's the container used for dry hopping that can cause this problem.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Yes, it's infected. Next time just don't bother with a bag.

 

[sweetcell]

have you taken a taste yet? does it taste sour, funky, etc? it's still pretty young so might not have developed the tell-tale flavors of known bugs unless it's acetobacter... you'll know that right away.

racking under the pellicle and leaving an inch of beer behind won't prevent you from getting the infection in your bottles. whatever bugs are in there - lacto, brett, other - they are everywhere in the beer. the surface is where we see a direct impact of their presence, but they aren't all gathered at the surface.

bottling now might be dangerous. you don't know how much more the bugs are going to ferment the beer. if you bottle now, once carb'ed i would store the beers ideally cold (in a fridge) or at least in a solid container or bag-lined box. i would also drink ASAP. safer bet is to ride this one out and give the bugs a few months to finish their work.

no need to sanitize hops.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yes, it's infected. Next time just don't bother with a bag.

+1

Bag is nothing more than a nuisance (unless you're dry hopping in the keg).

have you taken a taste yet? does it taste sour, funky, etc? it's still pretty young so might not have developed the tell-tale flavors of known bugs unless it's acetobacter... you'll know that right away.

racking under the pellicle and leaving an inch of beer behind won't prevent you from getting the infection in your bottles. whatever bugs are in there - lacto, brett, other - they are everywhere in the beer. the surface is where we see a direct impact of their presence, but they aren't all gathered at the surface.

bottling now might be dangerous. you don't know how much more the bugs are going to ferment the beer. if you bottle now, once carb'ed i would store the beers ideally cold (in a fridge) or at least in a solid container or bag-lined box. i would also drink ASAP. safer bet is to ride this one out and give the bugs a few months to finish their work.

no need to sanitize hops.

+100

"Rack underneath it" is just like that old stupid thing your parents always told you do with "just cut out the moldy part of bread".

It doesn't work. Just because you don't see the microorganisms elsewhere doesn't mean they're not all over the place.

If folks have racked underneath and then not had problems, it's probably because they consumed it faster than the bugs could present themselves fully. But they'll show themselves in time.

 

[john-NZ]

hey thanks for all the feed back and information guys. I really appreciate it.

After reading all your comments and advice, I'm leaning towards pouring this batch down the drain and putting it down to experience.
The other option of bottling it now, storing it cold and drinking it quick before the bacteria start showing again isn't going to work for me I'm afraid.

It seems to me the bag has caused this infection. I sprayed it quite a bit with star san solution before adding it to the fermenter, however, i iddnt go as far as to soak it for any period of time. I'm now guessing this is the best way. you guys agree?

Im pretty disappointed by all this, this is my first failed batch. however, its defiantly one way to learn from mistakes.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I wouldn't have learned much about homebrewing if I didn't learn from mistakes.

 

[ledbed6b]

If you have a spare carboy let it ride, it could be good who knows. Don't dump it until you give it a chance to make a good sour beer. I boil my hop bags and have never had an issue

 

[brewguyver]

hey thanks for all the feed back and information guys. I really appreciate it.

After reading all your comments and advice, I'm leaning towards pouring this batch down the drain and putting it down to experience.
The other option of bottling it now, storing it cold and drinking it quick before the bacteria start showing again isn't going to work for me I'm afraid.

It seems to me the bag has caused this infection. I sprayed it quite a bit with star san solution before adding it to the fermenter, however, i iddnt go as far as to soak it for any period of time. I'm now guessing this is the best way. you guys agree?

Im pretty disappointed by all this, this is my first failed batch. however, its defiantly one way to learn from mistakes.

If you have an extra fermenter and like sour beers, let it ride. No sense throwing away a potentially good beer. Now if the beer tastes/smells awful or you hate sour beers, then dump it. Same goes for if you have limited fermenters. Make sure to wash the heck out of the bucket and check for any major scratches. It's possible that you had the infection all along (wasn't the hop bag if you sanitized it correctly) and the pelecule formed when you gave the beer a good ol' dose of 02 when dry hopping.

Good luck!

 

[Yooper]

Yes, it's infected. Next time just don't bother with a bag.

It's not the bag that caused this.

It's that the beer is in a bucket. I use buckets, too, all the time for primary. but once fermentation slows down, that is a very wide headspace and after fermentation ends no new c02 will be produced to protect the beer. Opening the bucket to take readings and to dryhop allowed oxygen loving bacteria (lactobacillus) to take hold.

I dryhop in primary myself, but I think that somehow the primary was a bit long and by the time it was dryhopped, there was little co2 in the headspace to protect the beer. Maybe the lid has a leak or something, but oxygen is the cause of this infection.

 

[Qhrumphf]

It's not the bag that caused this.

It's that the beer is in a bucket. I use buckets, too, all the time for primary. but once fermentation slows down, that is a very wide headspace and after fermentation ends no new c02 will be produced to protect the beer. Opening the bucket to take readings and to dryhop allowed oxygen loving bacteria (lactobacillus) to take hold.

I dryhop in primary myself, but I think that somehow the primary was a bit long and by the time it was dryhopped, there was little co2 in the headspace to protect the beer. Maybe the lid has a leak or something, but oxygen is the cause of this infection.

I'd beg to differ, at least about Lacto. Lactobacillus is predominantly anaerobic. Hence why people saran wrap a sour mash to keep the oxygen out. Other microbes like Acetobacter love oxygen though.

However, I've never once had this problem from simply using a bucket, including ones that were opened after a week or two for readings and then left for another month.

 

[Yooper]

I'd beg to differ, at least about Lacto. Lactobacillus is predominantly anaerobic. Hence why people saran wrap a sour mash to keep the oxygen out. Other microbes like Acetobacter love oxygen though.

However, I've never once had this problem from simply using a bucket, including ones that were opened after a week or two for readings and then left for another month.

True, lactobacillus is mostly anaerobic. But it got INTO the bucket in the very wide headspace with lots of air, in order to take hold. sorry to not be clear!