Has Anyone Re-Pitched Bananza?

[Bramling Cross]

I managed to get my hands on some OYL-400 Bananza and I'm excited to give it a shake. As a penny-pinching re-pitcher, I've learned that hefe yeasts tend to become blander and blander with each re-pitch. Even under-pitched and temperature stressed, these strains seem to lose character with subsequent pitches.

Any advise? I'd like to schedule a series of beers based on the -400 strain, but experience suggests that doing so leads to diminishing returns.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to this post, it's appreciated.

 

[marc1]

Are you repitching from overbuilt starters or from yeast cake?
From cakes you might be selecting against the less flocculent cells. From a starter you can pour off a jar of homogeneous cells/ wort to save for next time.
I've had good luck propagating many generations from starters, but I don't use hefe yeast. The only one that hasn't propagated well in my hands was Philly sour.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

The only one that hasn't propagated well in my hands was Philly sour.

Often times sours are blends, so when one tries to reculture these, the blend ratio becomes different, so people don't get the results they expect.

 

[marc1]

Often times sours are blends, so when one tries to reculture these, the blend ratio becomes different, so people don't get the results they expect.

That one is just a finicky yeast whose performance is extremely dependent on pitch rate, and it propagates weird.

 

[Barbarossa]

Are you repitching from overbuilt starters or from yeast cake?

I'm just getting started with playing with yeast. I did my first two starters this weekend. I don't dare yet to repitch yeast as I have my head full with basic processes, kegging, keezers and now lagers. But yeast management is on my next steps along with water management.

I wonder if liquid yeast can be cultured at home? Can you buy some yeast and create the conditions to just grow it and use it at will? So far I only heard of people repitching until the yeast is too weak...

 

[marc1]

I'm just getting started with playing with yeast. I did my first two starters this weekend. I don't dare yet to repitch yeast as I have my head full with basic processes, kegging, keezers and now lagers. But yeast management is on my next steps along with water management.

I wonder if liquid yeast can be cultured at home? Can you buy some yeast and create the conditions to just grow it and use it at will? So far I only heard of people repitching until the yeast is too weak...

Yes! Yes you can.

It comes down to how much effort and expense/equipment you want to put into it. I build starters bigger than needed, then pour off a pint to keep in the fridge. Many months later, I can pull a jar and make a new starter to use that yeast again, and again I will save some of the starter in the fridge for next time.

You can do this as many times as you feel comfortable. The yeast may change over many generations, or get contaminated, but generally they can be used quite a few times if you are careful with sanitation.

Reusing yeast could be as simple as making a batch of low ABV beer, and then putting a big beer on the yeast cake when the first beer in done.

Some people like to scoop yeast out of the yeast cake from a finished batch, and either wash it, or save it as-is. I do not like this method, but others do so you should look into it while checking out this topic.

If you really want to go all in, you could learn about making slants, freezing yeast, growing them up from single colonies on plates, and on and on. You have to decide at what point "fun hobby" turns into "too much work", and only you can decide that. Collecting and maintaining a library of yeast samples could be a hobby of its own.

 

[Barbarossa]

Thanks for sharing that, @marc1. I would entertain the idea for a little while. I would love to be able to brew many batches in a row with the same yeast, and I thought that maybe a colony that never brewed a full scale beer would be healthier than just repitching on the old yeast cake. Right now I bought a 25kg of Vienna and plan on brewing six batches in a row. I ordered a book about yeast and one about water. Damn, who knew that it would get that complicated that fast.

 

[marc1]

Thanks for sharing that, @marc1. I would entertain the idea for a little while. I would love to be able to brew many batches in a row with the same yeast, and I thought that maybe a colony that never brewed a full scale beer would be healthier than just repitching on the old yeast cake. Right now I bought a 25kg of Vienna and plan on brewing six batches in a row. I ordered a book about yeast and one about water. Damn, who knew that it would get that complicated that fast.

If you keep repitching on the cake without splitting off some there will be too much yeast and it won't be able to grow healthily. You want to keep the cells from getting too dense.
Keep learning and enjoy!

 

[Bramling Cross]

Are you repitching from overbuilt starters or from yeast cake?
From cakes you might be selecting against the less flocculent cells. From a starter you can pour off a jar of homogeneous cells/ wort to save for next time.
I've had good luck propagating many generations from starters, but I don't use hefe yeast. The only one that hasn't propagated well in my hands was Philly sour.

Thanks for the excellent advice, marc1. I apologize about the late reply, I thought I had notifications turned on and assumed this thread simply plummeted off the front page because -400 is so new. I should've manually checked much sooner.

At any rate, I think your suggestion is solid. As you guessed, I typically either top crop (ales) or harvest off the cake (lagers). These techniques typically yield fine results, but Hefe strains are the gimps of the brewing world, they're big into abuse. It was a hard lesson to learn, but I eventually came around to the idea that you just smack the pack then pitch it--no starter, no oxygen, lax temp control.

I like your idea of breaking out the initial pitch into several (in my case, under-sized) starters. That should give me all the data points I need on this new strain.

Thanks for helping me turn the corner on this problem.