Has anyone ever brewed a Belgian beer without using a Belgian strain of yeast?

[rynoryan]

First off I admire the Belgian beers and think they've contributed tons to brewing. I used to love their beers but once my taste buds became more sensitive I started getting this kind of flavor I can only describe as somewhat skunky. I didn't know what it was at first but I'm pretty sure I've tracked it down to the yeast used in Belgian beers. So my question is has anyone brewed a Belgian beer of any kind and used a different kind of yeast. How did it turn out? Would you do it again?


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[Sovietnam]

I did a belgian style using Saf-33, briess golden light DME, cane sugar a lot of willamette hops with just a tad of nugget at the beginning of the boil. I also added small anmounts of coriander, cardamom and calamondin orange peel. The package says it can be used for belgian styles but it's not a true belgian yeast. It had good body, light color, and a nice spicy taste but not the "funk" that belgians usually have.

I should add the yeast taste was definitely present, just not as in your face or complex as a typical belgian

 

[kaconga]

A Belgian is defined by its yeast. A Belgian dark strong with British yeast would be more like a RIS. A Belgian golden strong would be a barley wine. It is kind of like lagers in that way. If you were to brew a lager recipe as an ale then it essentially ceases being a lager.

 

[Gareth68]

So my question is has anyone brewed a Belgian beer of any kind and used a different kind of yeast. How did it turn out? Would you do it again?


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Isn't that what they do to make Blue Moon?

 

[Malticulous]

It worked for Blue Moon.

 

[rynoryan]

Yeah I kind of figured that Belgian yeast is what actually made a beer Belgian. Didn't know that about blue moon though, interesting. Thanks for input guys.


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[rynoryan]

I did a belgian style using Saf-33, briess golden light DME, cane sugar a lot of willamette hops with just a tad of nugget at the beginning of the boil. I also added small anmounts of coriander, cardamom and calamondin orange peel. The package says it can be used for belgian styles but it's not a true belgian yeast. It had good body, light color, and a nice spicy taste but not the "funk" that belgians usually have.

That's very useful info. Thanks. Sounds like a pretty good recipe.


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[grittanomyces]

Is it the funk or the esters (that give it that kind of banana/clove notes) that turn you off?

Most Belgians do not typically have much funk at all. That is more a characteristic of saisons and beers brewed with wild yeasts like Brettanomyces, not your typical belgian yeasts.

If it is the esters that are turning you off, then ferment at a lower temperature.

Or no matter which it is, experimenting with creating a hybrid yeast that's part Belgian would both help cut down on the Belgian flavors. I know there's some info around here on mixing and creating yeast strains.

But yes, as others have mentioned above, foregoing the Belgian yeast completely is going to make it something that's not Belgian. The yeast is the primary characteristic of their beers.

 

[Sovietnam]

By "funk" I didn't mean a skunky or tangy flavor(which I guess is usually what people mean by that) I meant the distinctly "belgian" flavor of the yeast. beers like Chimay or Ommegang have way too much of it, but American versions of a Witbeer are mild enough for my palate. Not Blue Moon (made by Coors, Gross!) but Great White by Lost Coast is good.

 

[Demus]

Silly question here: if you don't like the flavor of Belgian beers why try and brew them? I'm not trying to be a smart arse but there are plenty of other beer styles out there...


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[grittanomyces]

By "funk" I didn't mean a skunky or tangy flavor(which I guess is usually what people mean by that) I meant the distinctly "belgian" flavor of the yeast. beers like Chimay or Ommegang have way too much of it, but American versions of a Witbeer are mild enough for my palate. Not Blue Moon (made by Coors, Gross!) but Great White by Lost Coast is good.

Again, I think what you and the OP are referring to is the esters produced by Belgian yeasts (also very prominent in some german styles like a hefeweizen).

Again, ferment at lower temps in the range (as higher temps create more, I've even had this happen with bottled beers I accidentally left in a hot car, had a Saison dupont that ended up tasting like a hefe), create hybrid strand, or find other styles such as the Belgian-ish one you mentioned above, those are the only options.

 

[Sovietnam]

When I hear Belgian I do automatically think "Yeast"

 

[Sovietnam]

I think the idea here is that the rest of the flavor profile(hops, abv, malt profile, mouthfeel) are what he is looking for, although you are right there ARE other styles that fit that description. Us beginners ( I am definitely one myself)are still trying to sort out the differences and use the closest approximation with the limited knowledge and brewing vocabulary we have. Something between an American Blonde(like myself ) and a Witbeer might be closer to what he is looking for.

 

[jro238]

I'm a little late to the party here and I am surprised that no one has mentioned this so far...

I'm about 90% sure that what OP is talking about is the phenolic flavor present in some belgians. I wouldn't describe it as skunky (if this is really the flavor then OP, you are just getting beer that hasn't traveled well across the ocean) but more as slightly medicinal and, in the example of chimay, somewhat like grape juice.

To answer the question though...I agree that belgian beers are made from the yeast.

 

[Hello]

^ it was technically mentioned in a round about way I think. The solution was given, ferment at lower temps. Short of that, don't brew a Belgian.

Email lost coast and ask what strain of yeast they use. See if you can find it.

 

[GuldTuborg]

^^^ Or choose a yeast that puts out a much lower level of phenols. Try the Rochefort beers and Duvel. If you like those, those strains can be used.

If those are still too phenolic, yet you like something with more yeast character than typical American styles, you need to start looking into the English styles, OP.

 

[solbes]

+1 to Guld, try the Duvel strain (WY1388). I like my Westmalle yeast, but I made a series of Belgians with the Duvel strain and the esters/phenols were more subdued. Those brews were better received than my 3787 brews for the non-enthusiasts.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Another thought, too, is that lower temps may well not be the answer, if phenols are the problem. Whether temperature and fermentation schedule helps or hurts is most likely strain dependent. Yeast selection will be key. There's this crazy notion, which will not die, that all yeast strains from Belgium are alike. On the contrary, there may well be more variety there than anywhere else. Pick one that you like, based off commercial examples, and learn how to use it to your liking.

Case in point - Westmalle, Achel, and Westvleteren all use the same strain of yeast. Their beers taste quite different. Most of that is in the fermentation schedule. To compare, other Trappist breweries make similar styles, and they taste quite a bit different to, due to different yeasts.

If that doesn't work, I think what OP needs to do is learn the right terms for what he's tasting. He may not be tasting phenols. If any beer tastes skunky, it's due to improper handling or storage. OP, it would help if you list exactly which beers tasted offensive to you.


And on the Blue Moon note, it is indeed fermented with an American Ale yeast. There's not much that's Belgian in character about it. Think of it this way...is a eunuch still a male?

 

[rynoryan]

Ok this sounds crazy but when I first started branching out tasting different beers I loved Belgians more than anything. They had a dark fruit flavor to them that I loved. I can only guess that my taste became more sensitive and now I pick up a distinct flavor in all Belgians. Whether it be a Belgian blonde (Leffe) or a quad (sixth glass). These are just examples I've tried many others. The flavor is hard to explain for me. I brew my wife quads all the time it's her favorite. When I'm done emptying out the fermenter bucket the way the yeast at the bottom smell is the taste I get. Sorry that's not that helpful but that's the best I can explain. I have experimented with different yeast and temps. Still that distinct flavor. I even get it from commercial brews. Though when my wife tries hefeweizens she can't taste banana and clove. It's so strong for me I shy away from those. Maybe that's helpful? Thank you guys for all the input.


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[grittanomyces]

Esters. The banana/clove is the spot on descriptor for them.

These are typical for Belgians and hefeweisens more than most any other. It is what defines those styles.

I'm with you, I got burnt out on Belgians because of the esters, though I still love a good Brett saison or quad.

So yes, it is the yeast.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Clove flavor comes from a phenol, not an ester. Weizens aren't Belgian.