Has anyone ever bought a commercial beer this this much yeast?
- Thread starter Geordan
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The point I was trying to make was that it is unfair to the brewer to jump to the conclusion that he was just "cutting corners" when it could have been a variety of factors - we simply do not know why the beer was "rushed". Although it seems logical to blame the greenbacks, no one can say for certain.
I agreed with the majority here in stating that the brewer's response was unsatisfactory (see line 2 of my initial post). The brewer's response is what should be criticized here. Keep in mind the original question posed by the OP was:
Does this look like what you would expect out out of a commercial bottle from an established craft brewer? Has anyone had a similar experience?
Geordan
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to provide a bit of an update -- though I know lots want me to disclose the brewery, I will admit I would prefer to give them the chance. The brewer has apparently sent a sales rep to the store I bought the beer at to "check for issues with other bottles."
To answer some questions that have come up: it's an IIPA, and is advertised as "unfiltered;" however, if I recall correctly, every bottle of this beer up to now has been very clear with no visible yeast flocs whatsoever.
I suspect one poster hit it on the nose earlier: because this is a high demand beer, I suspect the brewery wrung every last drop from the tank, meaning the bottles at the end had a large balance of trub.
In the end I am disappointed by how dismissive the brewer was during our phone conversation and that there wasn't an offer to replace the beer, as petty as that sounds. Some mentioned that the brewery may have been overwhelmed by similar complaints already -- I suspect not, as the brewer was quite dismissive of it on the phone and somewhat impatiently tried to explain to me what unfiltered beer was, and how it was "normal" before I convinced him otherwise.
To answer some questions that have come up: it's an IIPA, and is advertised as "unfiltered;" however, if I recall correctly, every bottle of this beer up to now has been very clear with no visible yeast flocs whatsoever.
I suspect one poster hit it on the nose earlier: because this is a high demand beer, I suspect the brewery wrung every last drop from the tank, meaning the bottles at the end had a large balance of trub.
In the end I am disappointed by how dismissive the brewer was during our phone conversation and that there wasn't an offer to replace the beer, as petty as that sounds. Some mentioned that the brewery may have been overwhelmed by similar complaints already -- I suspect not, as the brewer was quite dismissive of it on the phone and somewhat impatiently tried to explain to me what unfiltered beer was, and how it was "normal" before I convinced him otherwise.
Personally, I've had a lot of people offer to make things right when something got messed up. At least 99% of the time I just say, "It's not necessary and I appreciate the offer." I think the key here is seeing the producer take some pride in their product and concern about the customer. If I see that, I'm good!
Takes a foot upon the soapbox.
Geordan, I think you made the right decision not disclosing the brewer's name. I don't know how many of us on this forum know with certainty we could brew a perfect beer every time, batch after batch.
I'm sure it is the same with micro/nano breweries. How many of them have the automation to exactly replicate a beer - each and every one, every day?
I like to believe to error is human and to forgive is divine. The small craft breweries have many struggles. For one, they have a billion dollar industry against them.
The only thing that bothers me, and I think most people; is the brewer’s attitude. But how do you know for certainty it was the Brewmaster and not one of his assistants you spoke to?
There are two sides to every story and I hope the brewer’s (who might have been one of us before he went pro) story is not the one told.
Thank you for your discretion not calling out his name … at this point.
I can not even imagine going full scale. I probably wouldn’t be myself with the pressure put upon me.
I’m just rambling to everybody reading this so don’t take offense Geordan.
Support your local small guy brewer because maybe someday one day that will be one of us if we decide to go pro.
Stepped down from soapbox.
Geordan, I think you made the right decision not disclosing the brewer's name. I don't know how many of us on this forum know with certainty we could brew a perfect beer every time, batch after batch.
I'm sure it is the same with micro/nano breweries. How many of them have the automation to exactly replicate a beer - each and every one, every day?
I like to believe to error is human and to forgive is divine. The small craft breweries have many struggles. For one, they have a billion dollar industry against them.
The only thing that bothers me, and I think most people; is the brewer’s attitude. But how do you know for certainty it was the Brewmaster and not one of his assistants you spoke to?
There are two sides to every story and I hope the brewer’s (who might have been one of us before he went pro) story is not the one told.
Thank you for your discretion not calling out his name … at this point.
I can not even imagine going full scale. I probably wouldn’t be myself with the pressure put upon me.
I’m just rambling to everybody reading this so don’t take offense Geordan.
Support your local small guy brewer because maybe someday one day that will be one of us if we decide to go pro.
Stepped down from soapbox.
jspence1
Well-Known Member
I have to say I find it very unlikely that you talked to the brewer and got a response like that. I Know most of the brewers in the area and find it hard to believe any would respond like that. That being said if you get a bad bottle take it back to the LCBO and get your money back. I would really like to know the brewery in question, if you don't feel comfortable posting it for everyone please PM me it.
Still trying to figure out what brewery your talking about, I can't think of a single brewery that has a IIPA available now. The last one I was able to get was 10 bitter years and I had to go to the brewery and was only able to get two bottles
Still trying to figure out what brewery your talking about, I can't think of a single brewery that has a IIPA available now. The last one I was able to get was 10 bitter years and I had to go to the brewery and was only able to get two bottles
jspence1
Well-Known Member
You won't find a plate filter around here everyone uses DE
Geordan
Well-Known Member
jspence,
I am confident that I spoke directly to the head brewer, and we communicated via email as well. I am considering taking the bottle back to the LCBO, but at the same time, I might write off as more trouble than it's worth, trying to explain to them about yeast sediment for a two dollar bottle of beer!
Looks like you're in Hamilton -- now I'm trying to figure out what brewery you're at!
As has been mentioned, the issue is not that a bad beer slipped through, it's that the brewer brushed it off as normal rather than apologizing and offering to make it right. I've said this before on here, but customer service is simple when you never make a mistake, you just keep doing what you're doing. It's the times when something goes wrong and how you respond to it that define your level of customer service, and in this case I'd say this brewery has horrible customer service. It could have been a really off day for the guy and maybe he had other stuff going on, but in business you're only as good as your last mistake and it's that easy to lose customers forever.
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
it looks like surly furious to me.
the worst part is its in cans, so you have no idea where the yeast is until it starts coming out.
the worst part is its in cans, so you have no idea where the yeast is until it starts coming out.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Ha! I split a whole case with a friend at work!
Anyway, I think the only widely-available IIPA right now at the LCBO is one from Tree Beer Co. Saw it a while ago but didn't bother to pick it up because my hands were full.
So I will just assume the beer is from Tree. Shame!!!
MisterTipsy
Well-Known Member
Oooooo. The cat is out of the bag now.
Boycott Tree Beer Co!
Wait...who?
Boycott Tree Beer Co!
Wait...who?
I bought a 6-Pack of Starr Hill (Charlottesville, VA) Double Platinum that looked just like that, and the biggest problem with the beer wasn't the yeast per se, it was the fact that it was oxidized like I couldn't believe. I contacted the brewery through their website to let them know and got a very prompt response from one of the co-founders of the Brewery who not only connected me with a sales rep who provided me a replacement 6-Pack, but they sent me a T-Shirt for my "troubles."
All I wanted to do was let them know they were seeing some QC issues on their retailer end. I was blown away by their response.
All I wanted to do was let them know they were seeing some QC issues on their retailer end. I was blown away by their response.
jspence1
Well-Known Member
Ha! I split a whole case with a friend at work!
Anyway, I think the only widely-available IIPA right now at the LCBO is one from Tree Beer Co. Saw it a while ago but didn't bother to pick it up because my hands were full.
So I will just assume the beer is from Tree. Shame!!!
I wouldn't call tree "local" but you are probably right. I was expecting something from Trafalgar.
jspence1
Well-Known Member
This is how it should have been handled
Geordan
Well-Known Member
Hey! When I said I wasn't saying who the brewery was, I meant it! No boycotting And Tree is only local inasmuch as it's Canadian -- there's several thousand kilometres between them and me (unfortunately).
jspence, it's funny you should say that about Trafalgar; that's the only local brewery I won't buy beer from anymore because I've just never had a good bottle.
And Tree is only local inasmuch as it's Canadian -- there's several thousand kilometres between them and me (unfortunately).jspence, it's funny you should say that about Trafalgar; that's the only local brewery I won't buy beer from anymore because I've just never had a good bottle.
MisterTipsy
Well-Known Member
If they have a pub, go there with pics of the yeasty beer and a copy of the brewer's email blown up into a big picket sign.
Don't leave until you get an apology, free beer and a big plate of poutine.
Don't leave until you get an apology, free beer and a big plate of poutine.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
A Trafalgar stout exploded on me this past winter. Yes, it was in the cold cellar, but so were 200 other beers that nothing happened to. I don't even think it gets below freezing in there anyway.
To be totally honest, Tree has been around for a while (1996) - they are also pretty professional people and I don't see them saying something so foolish. They would probably go ape**** if they found out one of their beers looked like this.
Trafalgar Ales & Meads is a place that I couldn't even find an email address for to tell them about my bottle explosion. Their website is so mickey-mouse - and I realize it's a brewery not a web design shop - but based on this, the fact they have no apparent email address, and the fact that a bottle exploded on me leading me to suspect some kind of infection, I would not be surprised.
Geordan
Well-Known Member
I once had someone much more knowledgeable than myself say they suspected the consistant off flavour in Trafalgar's products were from a persistent infection in the brewery. It's something I agreed with, having tried a few of their beers.
To be clear, I'm not here to slag on any of our local craft brewers -- Ontario needs more of them! -- but man, there's some I just won't waste my dollars on.
jspence1
Well-Known Member
I won't buy anything with their name on it now, too many problems. I really don't know how they are still in business I don't know anyone who still buys the their beer
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
So who could it be then? Can't be any of the more well-known ones like Mill St., Flying Monkeys, Amsterdam, etc.
Gotta be something low-key. How do I find a local brewery with an unfiltered IIPA on the menu? Hmmm....
I actually wouldn't mind if you did PM me the brewery actually. Beer in Ontario is pretty pricey as you know, and I would like to know where to better redirect my money. I'd rather support the guys who take their jobs and products seriously.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Was it Nickelbrook Headstock - it's new, comes in a can, so you wouldn't know until it's too late.
Wait you said bottle... damn this is tough. But fun.
Wait you said bottle... damn this is tough. But fun.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Beaver River IPA from Beau's. HAS to be.
Available at every LCBO I've seen, have been ramping up production lately, bottles are big enough to fill that glass of yours, beer is unfiltered.
Only thing is these people are very nice and seem to take pride in their work. Also Vankleek Hill isn't exactly "local". The search continues...
Available at every LCBO I've seen, have been ramping up production lately, bottles are big enough to fill that glass of yours, beer is unfiltered.
Only thing is these people are very nice and seem to take pride in their work. Also Vankleek Hill isn't exactly "local". The search continues...
jspence1
Well-Known Member
I really can't think of any other breweries that it would be.
Neustadt maybe? But I've never seen a IIPA from them
Are any of you Toronto people part of the SOB group?
Neustadt maybe? But I've never seen a IIPA from them
Are any of you Toronto people part of the SOB group?
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
You will find I post there under the wildly different username of "paulster2626".
I'll be @ Amsterdam tomorrow evening. Getting my grains, and will be open to the suggestion of grabbing a beer somewhere since the wife is out and I'm freeeeee!!!
jspence1
Well-Known Member
No chance it was beau's they would fall over themselves to fix it. I had a bottle that wasn't that great and was chatting with them at one of the beer festivals and he asked me to send him the lot number so they could look into it
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
It was Molson, wasn't it?
Geordan
Well-Known Member
I'm registered on the SOB's boards, but tend to just lurk -- they're so quiet!
jspence1
Well-Known Member
I'm not on the board much. It changed when they switched from the mailing list. I'm not getting any grain this time but have a great time hope you find someone to drink with
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Jesus. How could I not guess this one.
OP, your bottle of Coors Light Iced Tea (C.L.I.T.) was bunk. Just write it off as a lesson learned.
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Yeah they did seem legit when I talked to them at a beer fest. Oh well my guessing is done. I would like a full list of all IIPA's available in the GTA though for my own research purposes.
thatjonguy
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jspence1 said:
Just because everyone uses a DE bulk filter doesn't mean they have to as well. Plate filters can be had new for about $7k, even less for used.
jspence1
Well-Known Member
OK let me rephrase, I have personally not seen a single micro brewery in the province of Ontario use anything but DE filters. This is due not to the cost of the filter unit but the cost of the filter plates. Where I worked we filtered 80HL with a DE filter because it was less expensive than plate filters, I'm not positive at what capacity it is more economical to use plate filters but it is definitely more than that. The micros here are brewing in 10-30HL batches
Carter1932
#burp
Looks like they should move over to San Diego Super Yeast. That stuff is quick fermenting and drops so hard and fast you can practically hear it hit the bottom.
thatjonguy
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jspence1 said:
At that (80 hl) size bulk DE would work better IMO. New bulk DE filters are about $17k USD from Velo in Italy.
It is almost necessary to filter craft beer because the populous thinks all beer should be crystal clear, which is not always true.
I would think that breweries that are packaging would filter prior to bottling or at least use a fining agent post-fermentation if they can't afford a filter unit.
But that does fix the attitude of the brewer. My two problems with the response are; 1) not offering to fix the problem with the customer (hell even a free pint glass and a replacement bottle could have made things a little better) and 2) if they can't afford a filter, how can they afford to play microbiologist (and all the lab equipment) in their spare time? Let a yeast lab find you a new strain while working on fixing your mistake.
Geordan
Well-Known Member
To be clear, I'm pretty confident that this brewery does filter most of its offerings -- this beer is specifically marketed as unfiltered.
thatjonguy
Now with 57.93% more awesome!
Geordan said:
I must have missed that but I guess mission accomplished then?
I have no problem with yeast sediment with Oberon. Like Heffe's, the yeast is a big part of the flavor profile. So much so, some suggest agitating the beer before opening and pouring.
The worst I have seen/had was a farmhouse from Prairie Artisian. I took out over a half inch of yeast from a pint glass after basically cold-crashing it 3 hours after pouring. It was still full of yeast in suspension at that point too.
The worst I have seen/had was a farmhouse from Prairie Artisian. I took out over a half inch of yeast from a pint glass after basically cold-crashing it 3 hours after pouring. It was still full of yeast in suspension at that point too.
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