Harvested Two Hearted yeast finally took off

[copper2hopper]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1417983024.050164.jpg
Is that yeast??? Or just settled yeast nutrient. I can't tell at all. This starter hasn't taken off at all I don't think in four days now and I'm worried

 

[Brew_G]

Looks like there's some yeast in there. If it's the first step, then there won't be a ton of growth. Step 1 is only to wake them up and get them ready to eat. Cold crash, decant, step it up with a 1.025-1.030 wort and you should see some growth of you have viable cells.

I just pitched mine into my brown ale - wort was 67F. I also saved a little for my next brew, an APA inspired by Two Hearted.

Here's what I had as of this morning:

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1417990575.612629.jpg

However, I stupidly left a space heater blowing on it for quite a while yesterday, and I undoubtedly killed some of the buggers. The slurry still smelled great, though. I'll see in the next 12 hours whether my experiment paid off.

 

[Brew_G]

Also, I took a gravity reading with the decanted wort - it was 1.008. Hungry little guys.

 

[copper2hopper]

So dumb. This isn't working. I went ahead and made a step batch of wort and pulled everything out of the the flask that was originally in there and Gravity was at 1.030. This **** didn't take off at all in four days now. I just added all that and the new step up batch back into the same flask and we will see what happens tonight I guess. If nothing then should I scrap it all and start over?? WTF. so frustrating.

 

[Brew_G]

So dumb. This isn't working. I went ahead and made a step batch of wort and pulled everything out of the the flask that was originally in there and Gravity was at 1.030. This **** didn't take off at all in four days now. I just added all that and the new step up batch back into the same flask and we will see what happens tonight I guess. If nothing then should I scrap it all and start over?? WTF. so frustrating.

You need to be patient. If you read through other threads and/or any of the multiple online discussions about harvesting from bottles, you'll see that it simply takes time and patience. I may have been lucky by having fresh bottles and because I had more initial yeast by using the dregs from a full six pack.

Just because your wort is still 1.030 doesn't meant that no yeast were produced or that you don't have viable yeast. If you have a large volume of 1.030 wort to start, there's a chance that it's far too strong and there's too much for those few bottle yeast to handle. High volume of wort doesn't necessarily equal quick or substantial yeast growth. That's why you need to go through the stepping up process.

Also, you used a stir plate for your first step. That may very well work, but most of what I've read suggests just putting them in a jar with a small amount of wort first so they get used to being outside of an alcoholic, de-oxygenated environment again. You wouldn't want to run a 10K first thing in the morning after a couple weeks of not training, would you?

If you don't have patience and take the time to step things up, then perhaps bottle harvesting isn't for you.

 

[Gavin C]

Looks like there's some yeast in there. If it's the first step, then there won't be a ton of growth. Step 1 is only to wake them up and get them ready to eat. Cold crash, decant, step it up with a 1.025-1.030 wort and you should see some growth of you have viable cells.

I just pitched mine into my brown ale - wort was 67F. I also saved a little for my next brew, an APA inspired by Two Hearted.

Here's what I had as of this morning:

View attachment 240511

However, I stupidly left a space heater blowing on it for quite a while yesterday, and I undoubtedly killed some of the buggers. The slurry still smelled great, though. I'll see in the next 12 hours whether my experiment paid off.

Thanks for showing the process. I was looking for some Bell's this weekend. Couldn't find any here in my Central Market (Like whole foods here in Texas)

 

[Brew_G]

My fermentation seems to be going really well at a little over 24 hours post-pitch. Activity in the carboy, bubbling blowoff tube, and kräusen forming.

I e-mailed Bell's a little while ago to ask some basic questions about homebrew fermentation temp range for this yeast and what aromas and flavors one could expect at either end of the range. And I brown nosed a bit by gushing over Two Hearted. I'd love to get a response.

 

[bford]

Thanks for showing the process. I was looking for some Bell's this weekend. Couldn't find any here in my Central Market (Like whole foods here in Texas)

Bell's isn't available in Texas... yet.... but I always keep hearing we are just a year or two away.... cheers to it being shorter.

 

[Gavin C]

Bell's isn't available in Texas... yet.... but I always keep hearing we are just a year or two away.... cheers to it being shorter.

Need to get myself on the MAW thread so

 

[Brew_G]

Well...Bell's responded in less than 24 hours. What awesome customer service! I asked if they were OK with my sharing it, and they gave me the thumbs up.

Dear [Brew_G]:

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. I am glad to hear you enjoyed Two Hearted Ale!

For pitching your yeast, you will want to cool down to about 64 degrees Fahrenheit before aerating and pitching. For fermentation, the temperature range can be pretty variable, but I would recommend you ferment a little warmer than most ales, maybe 70 to 72 degrees.

Aromas during fermentation should be very slight fruit, but clean otherwise. Attenuation of our yeast is pretty high but will depend on pitch rates and fermentation temperatures.

I have also attached a PDF copy of our clone recipe for Two Hearted Ale that was in Zymurgy Magazine for reference.

I hope this information helps. Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any further questions or concerns. Good luck with the brew!!

Sincerely,

Melissa D
Brand Ambassador
Bell's Brewery, Inc.

This is when I e-mailed Melissa to thank her and ask her if it was OK for me to share the info. Her response was exactly what someone would hope for from a brewery like Bell's.

Dear [Brew_G],

I do not mind at all if you share the information! As a company, our roots are firmly in home brewing. Any help we can ever provide we always will. If you ever have any other questions, feel free to contact me. Even if it something I may not know, I have a few expert homebrewers I can go to if need be.

Good luck with the brew! I hope your wife enjoys it!

Cheers,

Melissa D
Bell's Brewery, Inc.
Brand Ambassador

Is that great, or what?

 

[mtnagel]

I've gotten a response from them before too. Great company!

 

[copper2hopper]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418185228.503102.jpg
Yay!!!! I love krausen!!! Finally after six days and stepping it "down" (cuz I started with too high gravity of initial starter wort) it finally took off. Time to baby this little colony into a metropolis!

 

[Brew_G]

View attachment 240946
Yay!!!! I love krausen!!! Finally after six days and stepping it "down" (cuz I started with too high gravity of initial starter wort) it finally took off. Time to baby this little colony into a metropolis!

Nice! Just a little patience...

 

[CastleHollow]

Dear [Brew_G]:

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. I am glad to hear you enjoyed Two Hearted Ale!

For pitching your yeast, you will want to cool down to about 64 degrees Fahrenheit before aerating and pitching. For fermentation, the temperature range can be pretty variable, but I would recommend you ferment a little warmer than most ales, maybe 70 to 72 degrees.

Aromas during fermentation should be very slight fruit, but clean otherwise. Attenuation of our yeast is pretty high but will depend on pitch rates and fermentation temperatures. ...

Sincerely,

Melissa D
Brand Ambassador
Bell's Brewery, Inc.

I've been using a harvested Bell's strain as my house yeast for a few years and usually get close to 85% attenuation when mashing at 150 and fermenting in the mid/upper 60s. It's definitely great stuff!

 

[Brew_G]

I've been using a harvested Bell's strain as my house yeast for a few years and usually get close to 85% attenuation when mashing at 150 and fermenting in the mid/upper 60s. It's definitely great stuff!

Awesome info. Thanks, CastleHollow!

Vigorous fermentation for my brown ale has been at 67-68F, but the temp started to come down as the fermentation has slowed. My ambient basement temp is between 61-64F, so it won't go any lower than that. Do you see any issue with that, or should I move the fermenter somewhere warmer to keep the temps up the whole time?

 

[solbes]

For a brown ale, I would err on the cooler side of things. Maybe as its 80% done start warming it up to the 66 or so to let it finish.

For a 2H clone, pitch at 64 and slowly ramp up to 68/69 near the end. Once you cross 67 or so you will start to take on the typical fruit flavors that are easily detectable in the original. I ferment my APA's in the same temp schedule.

Although they mention 70-72, the geometry of their tanks makes a difference. They can go warmer without creating as many esters with the huge benefit (to them) of quick fermentations. So although I can't say 70-72 wouldn't produce good beer (I have not gone that high in any of my 18 batches with Bells), it may have more esters than what you are trying to clone. Two pennies

 

[copper2hopper]

You guys are talking about liquid temp right? Not ambient temp? I unfortunately do not have the luxury of controlling temperatures with a fermentation chamber alI I have is my 68° basementwhere I just let the fermentation do what it does. I've noticed one stuff is fermenting vigorously the fermometer reads mid 70's every time.

Also....now that I see the very first step has fermented a little bit and produced a little better krausen when should I step up the gravity of the next batch of wort to add

 

[Lgaddy44]

I've been able to make good slants from Two Hearted dregs. Being that we don't get Bells in Maryland, picking some up when visiting Michigan was at the top of my list. Starters from my slants worked fine and was able to make some good beer. Regardless of what their yeast may or may not be, I like keeping theirs in my inventory.

 

[Strut]

I recently harvested yeast for the first time myself, for my first Two Hearted clone. I harvested from three bottles, and then three more two days later. By day 5 I had krausen over an inch thick in my half-gallon mason jar. I manually stirred the hell out of it, a few times a day, by spinning the jar for a few minutes.

This has been one of my most vigorous fermentations to date from an ale yeast. My ambient temp is kept at 67*

I plan on washing this one and keeping it around.

I actually got the idea to harvest their yeast from Bell's own blog. It states that they use a house yeast, and it isn't available anywhere except from their unfiltered ales.

http://bellshomebrew.tumblr.com/post/66974707212/how-to-culture-bells-house-yeast-from-a-bottle-of

 

[Brew_G]

For a brown ale, I would err on the cooler side of things. Maybe as its 80% done start warming it up to the 66 or so to let it finish.



For a 2H clone, pitch at 64 and slowly ramp up to 68/69 near the end. Once you cross 67 or so you will start to take on the typical fruit flavors that are easily detectable in the original. I ferment my APA's in the same temp schedule.



Although they mention 70-72, the geometry of their tanks makes a difference. They can go warmer without creating as many esters with the huge benefit (to them) of quick fermentations. So although I can't say 70-72 wouldn't produce good beer (I have not gone that high in any of my 18 batches with Bells), it may have more esters than what you are trying to clone. Two pennies

I've been in touch with them a bit more today and they pretty much echoed your statements. The store manager (an avid homebrewer) said that I should shoot to keep it around 68F if I can. Going too much lower than that and the yeast might start to flocculate out and might not allow them to clean up. Going above that would give more fruity esters typical of TH, which isn't what I'm going for with this brown ale. I might do so for an IPA or hoppy APA.

In my original correspondence, I did ask about homebrewer temps, so I think the 70-72 is still legit, but for something more like Two Hearted.

I was 66F as of this morning, which down from 68F. I'm going to try to keep it a little warmer for the next few days to let things clean up.

 

[Brew_G]

You guys are talking about liquid temp right? Not ambient temp? I unfortunately do not have the luxury of controlling temperatures with a fermentation chamber alI I have is my 68° basementwhere I just let the fermentation do what it does. I've noticed one stuff is fermenting vigorously the fermometer reads mid 70's every time.

Also....now that I see the very first step has fermented a little bit and produced a little better krausen when should I step up the gravity of the next batch of wort to add

I try to distinguish fermentation temp from ambient temp. My basement ambient temp runs 61-64F this time of year; my fermentation temp has been up to 68F, but is now down to 66F.

Based on the feedback I've gotten from Bell's, I'd think that 68F ambient temp would work for something like an IPA. It might get a little too estery if fermentation goes above 72F though, so I'd watch it.

As for the second part of your post, let the yeast settle out for a bit, then go ahead and pop it in the fridge to cold crash for 12 hours or so. Decant the spent wort, then add about 750-1000 mL of fresh 1.030 wort and put it on your stir plate. Let that ride for 24-36 hours, cold crash for 12 hours, and decide from there if you need to step up again. If so, decant and go with 1.5L of fresh 1.030-1.040 wort on your stir plate for 24 hours. Cold crash. If you don't have a 2L flask, you could probably step up with another 1L to get some additional growth.

If all goes well, you should have about 75-100mL of thick yeast at the bottom of your flask after your cold crash. I poured about 1/4 of mine into a sanitized 250 mL jelly jar and topped off with boiled/cooled water, then popped it into the fridge for future use. I used the rest to pitch into my brown ale.

 

[Brew_G]

I'd just like to say that this has been a great conversation. I've really learned a lot from it. Thanks to everyone who's participated!

 

[solbes]

The temps I have been quoted is as close to liquid temps as I can come. I take a digital weather thermometer probe and tape it to the bucket/carboy with packaging tape. I have 2 folded up paper towels to the outside of the probe as insulation so that I get a better read on the bucket/carboy temp. I do the same thing for my A419 Johnson temp controller on my fridge.

I suppose the next step is a thermowell, but I haven't needed to go that far yet.

 

[copper2hopper]

How soon after my very first fermentation of this stuff should I pull it off-decant-and step up?

 

[Brew_G]

How soon after my very first fermentation of this stuff should I pull it off-decant-and step up?

Once the kräusen has settled, put it in the fridge and go from there.

 

[copper2hopper]

Stepped it up and BAM!!View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418433238.296097.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418433293.316000.jpg

 

[Brew_G]

I've been waiting for your follow-up. Glad to hear it's working!

I'm five days into fermentation of my brown ale, and the temps went down quite a bit (down to 62F), so I moved it into the laundry room and have been blowing a space heater on it here and there. It's now at 65F and I have it wrapped in a jacket when the heater isn't on. It's started to flocculate, but there's still plenty of yeast in suspension. I'm hoping to keep the temps high enough to keep the those yeast working to clean up.

This process has taught me a *lot* and now has me looking into relatively inexpensive temp control.

 

[copper2hopper]

So how do I know when I have enough for a 5 or even a 10 gallon batch. I mean I know there's calculators out there and what not and even one posted on the page 2 of this thread but how do I really know how many cells I even started with from a six pack of dregs and then now after stepping it up 3 times (this 3rd time btw is going phenomenal and going crazy in the flask on the stir plate). Any advice would be great thanks.

 

[Brew_G]

So how do I know when I have enough for a 5 or even a 10 gallon batch. I mean I know there's calculators out there and what not and even one posted on the page 2 of this thread but how do I really know how many cells I even started with from a six pack of dregs and then now after stepping it up 3 times (this 3rd time btw is going phenomenal and going crazy in the flask on the stir plate). Any advice would be great thanks.

It's impossible to know for sure if you have enough cells except if you actually count them. Thing is, you'd need equipment that I'm suspecting you (and pretty much everyone else) don't have on hand.

All I did was make an educated guess as to the amount of yeast that settled to the bottom of my flask. Since it was a thick layer of fresh yeast, I assumed 3-4 billion cells per ml of yeast. You then multiply that by your estimated thickness. If you've stepped it up three times, and you've noticed a good amount of yeast at the bottom of your chilled flask in previous steps, you can safely assume that you e got plenty. In my case, I estimated that I had about 33% too much, which is why I poured off about 25% into a sanitized jelly jar to use in a starter for a future beer.

 

[Brew_G]

By the way, I couldn't help myself and had a whiff of my brown ale earlier. I think the yeast might be helping give off some nice fruitiness.

Wow...if it tastes as good as it smells, it's going to be awesome.