harsh NEIPA finish

[MotoGP1000]

so I've posted multiple times about this topic. Probably due to my refusal to accept defeat. But every time I brew an NEIPA, I get very harsh finish. like a rough aspirin or chalk attribute to the beer that can overwhelm the actual good characteristics of the hops.

So i'll take another stab at what might be happening.

Does after your whirlpool/hopstand time of 30 - 45 minutes, do you immediately strain the hops from the wort THEN go to cool the wort down for yeast pitch?

I have been basically doing the whirlpool/hopstand, then using my wort chiller to cool down everything, then straining. Im wondering if the added hop contact time is lending to the harshness. That being said, I would expect once the wort gets to a lower temp that its not longer pulling anything from the hops. or a very small amount at best.

thanks everyone. One day i'll brew that NEIPA that tastes just like a cracked can from my favorite brew place. May not be today... but one day.

 

[IslandLizard]

I guess we will have to look at your other threads/posts about that issue...

Does after your whirlpool/hopstand time of 30 - 45 minutes, do you immediately strain the hops from the wort

Nope, from what I gather most of us leave them behind in the kettle until it gets cleaned. I actually strain the leftover trub to recoup the wort.

Unseen, I have the feeling it's may be your water (composition), brew process (excessive bitterness), and/or dry hopping.
What kind of water do you use?
If (chlorinated) municipal tap water, are you treating it with Campden?

 

[couchsending]

hops added hotside should have nothing to do with a bitter finish...

A finishing bitterness comes from a few things:

excess bicarbonates in your water extracting polyphenols when you due to an increase in pH. Although I don’t think this is what you’re experiencing.

Too much CaCl. High levels of Cl combined with high levels of Ca can cause a really chalky like astringency to the finish. Baby aspirin, chalk, harshness, all can be caused by this.

Not cold conditioning your beer for long enough, especially before kegging or bottling or whatever your packaging of choice is. High dry hopping loads with the popular new school hops will lead to lots of polyphenols in suspension. These polyphenols can be very bitter or astringent. It’s not front of the palate bitterness but more of a harsh astringent finish to the beer. Galaxy is the worst offender usually.

Highly dry hopped beers need time to condition and/or fining agents like biofine.

All of the things people think are necessary for this style often times make the beers really hard to drink.

yes maybe favor CaCl over CaSo4 but keep it in check and definitely keep Ca levels under 100. If you want to boost Cl levels use other salts like MgCl, NaCl, or KCL.

Dry hop a little colder and after removing yeast. Then cold condition for extended periods of time depending on hops chosen and hopping load.

You don’t need crazy high levels of flaked adjuncts. In fact you don’t need any. You can make great permanently hazy beer with just different forms of malted barley believe it or not.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I guess we will have to look at your other threads/posts about that issue...


Nope, from what I gather most of us leave them behind in the kettle until it gets cleaned. I actually strain the leftover trub to recoup the wort.

Unseen, I have the feeling it's may be your water (composition), brew process (excessive bitterness), and/or dry hopping.
What kind of water do you use?
If (chlorinated) municipal tap water, are you treating it with Campden?

So I’m actually using distilled water. But I use Waters brewer neipa mineral packs because I’m awful at chemistry myself

 

[MotoGP1000]

no hops added hotside should have anything to do with a bitter finish...

A finishing bitterness comes from a few things:

excess bicarbonates in your water extracting polyphenols when you due to an increase in pH. Although I don’t think this is what you’re experiencing.

Too much CaCl. High levels of Cl combined with high levels of Ca can cause a really chalky like astringency to the finish. Baby aspirin, chalk, harshness, all can be caused by this.

Not cold conditioning your beer for long enough, especially before kegging or bottling or whatever your packaging of choice is. High dry hopping loads with the popular new school hops will lead to lots of polyphenols in suspension. These polyphenols can be very bitter or astringent. It’s not front of the palate bitterness but more of a harsh astringent finish to the beer. Galaxy is the worst offender usually.

Highly dry hopped beers need time to condition and/or fining agents like biofine.

All of the things people think are necessary for this style often times make the beers really hard to drink.

yes maybe favor CaCl over CaSo4 but keep it in check and definitely keep Ca levels under 100. If you want to boost Cl levels use other salts like MgCl, NaCl, or KCL.

Dry hop a little colder and after removing yeast. Then cold condition for extended periods of time depending on hops chosen and hopping load.

You don’t need crazy high levels of flaked adjuncts. In fact you don’t need any. You can make great permanently hazy beer with just different forms of malted barley believe it or not.

Man I wish I could learn this water chemistry bit. I’m a monkey crashing cymbals when it comes to this stuff

 

[couchsending]

Man I wish I could learn this water chemistry bit. I’m a monkey crashing cymbals when it comes to this stuff

its not that hard at all. I have no idea what those “mineral packs” contain but I have a hunch that’s one of your issues.

Do you have any amount of CaCl, Gypsum, epsom Salt?

Any acid? Lactic acid specifically

pH meter?

 

[MotoGP1000]

its not that hard at all. I have no idea what those “mineral packs” contain but I have a hunch that’s one of your issues.

Do you have any amount of CaCl, Gypsum, epsom Salt?

Any acid? Lactic acid specifically

pH meter?

None of that. lol. I wouldn’t know what to do with it.

 

[MotoGP1000]

its not that hard at all. I have no idea what those “mineral packs” contain but I have a hunch that’s one of your issues.

Do you have any amount of CaCl, Gypsum, epsom Salt?

Any acid? Lactic acid specifically

pH meter?

But if you can recommend a meter that won’t break my piggy bank and lend some tips Id be more than happy to ya e the assistance

 

[MN brewer]

FWIW I also used RO water and adjusted chemistry to NEIPA profile. My gravity sample had astringent hop burn taste. I cold crashed before kegging and it almost disappeared. 4-5 days in the keg it was gone.

 

[couchsending]

But if you can recommend a meter that won’t break my piggy bank and lend some tips Id be more than happy to ya e the assistance

You sort of get what you pay for with pH meters, like anything else. I can’t recommend a really cheap one, others can. The MW101 and 102 from Milwaukee are pretty indestructible. I use the 102 and it gets used a ton and it’ll last forever. I’m sure there’s a decent one for $40 somewhere. You need to know how to use them and calibrate them. It’s not hard.

You don’t necessarily need one at first but they’re great tools to have and can help you make better beer and learn more about the brewing process.

There are tons of brewing spreadsheets online. I use Bru’n water. It’s not perfect but it does the job.

You can buy CaCl and Epsom salt at the grocery store, as well as non iodized salt. Lactic acid you’ll need to get at the Homebrew store but it’s cheap. You can use some acid malt as well. You don’t need a gram scale but it’s handy and they’re like $10 on amazon. Measuring spoons work fine. Ideally an eye dropper with ml measurements on it for lactic acid. You can get one at the pharmacy for cheap.

More than happy to walk you through it and make it stupid easy to begin with. Once you get the basics down it’s really very easy to understand and all your beers will probably be that much better. You can make it as easy or as complicated as you want.

 

[IslandLizard]

So I’m actually using distilled water. But I use Waters brewer neipa mineral packs because I’m awful at chemistry myself

If you're using RO or distilled water you definitely don't need a pH meter! Your water profile is very predictable.

Just add your CaCl2, CaSO4, a little Epsom Salt, and perhaps some acid in the mash, if needed. Using a water calculator will help with that.

But that mineral pack needs to get scrapped.
They used to sell Burton Salts "mineral packs," it resulted in the.worst.tasting.ESB I ever brewed! This was also before I knew what I was doing, but think it was caused by an abundance of baking soda. The "beer" never cleared either.

 

[MotoGP1000]

You sort of get what you pay for with pH meters, like anything else. I can’t recommend a really cheap one, others can. The MW101 and 102 from Milwaukee are pretty indestructible. I use the 102 and it gets used a ton and it’ll last forever. I’m sure there’s a decent one for $40 somewhere. You need to know how to use them and calibrate them. It’s not hard.

You don’t necessarily need one at first but they’re great tools to have and can help you make better beer and learn more about the brewing process.

There are tons of brewing spreadsheets online. I use Bru’n water. It’s not perfect but it does the job.

You can buy CaCl and Epsom salt at the grocery store, as well as non iodized salt. Lactic acid you’ll need to get at the Homebrew store but it’s cheap. You can use some acid malt as well. You don’t need a gram scale but it’s handy and they’re like $10 on amazon. Measuring spoons work fine. Ideally an eye dropper with ml measurements on it for lactic acid. You can get one at the pharmacy for cheap.

More than happy to walk you through it and make it stupid easy to begin with. Once you get the basics down it’s really very easy to understand and all your beers will probably be that much better. You can make it as easy or as complicated as you want.

Awesome. Thank you. I’ll send a message and start a convo soon. My next brew day won’t be for another month so should be enough time to grasp some basics