Hard Cider

[johnnyo1977]

Oh.. by the way I had entered this in my second competition and it place 3rd.. the cider is all most a year old. I only have two large bottles left..

 

[esarkipato]

Will this carb in the bottle? What makes the cotes de blanc peeter out at such a high FG?

 

[johnnyo1977]

the original gravity is high and the yeast will only attenuate so far with that much sugar. It is not like a champagne yeast that can handle a high alcohol content.

 

[CidahMastah]

Hey there Johnny,

It is a stupid amount of cider. But when I looked to buy apples for pressing it was way cheaper to by them by a 20 bushel bin. But then you need several kinds to make good cider... the bins were single variety only.... you see where this lead right? (4 bins later) Ha! I am using a range of wine and cider yeasts here they are:

Wyeast Cider 4766? - cider styled (demijohn)
Wyeast Dry Mead - cider styled (demijohn)
Lavlin 1118 - champagne, New England cider and traditional cider styled (5/6.5 carboys and 2 demijohns)
Lavlin D-47 - Cider and Apple wine styled (gallon and demijohn)
Red Star - Cote de blanc - Ciders (several gallon test variations)
Red Star - Pasteur Champagne - Cider styled (6.5 carboy)
I started a french styled cider too (wild yeast) - Cider styled (gallon sized)
(about 98 gallons) - can you guess what people will be getting for xmas haha

This is going to be a big learning year with all the strains in place. I plan on starting a cider fermentation with ale yeasts too, smaller batches. Oddly, I never used ale yeasts because my cider comes out so good with the wine yeasts. Looks like a lot of people use Safale-05 and Nottingham ale yeasts.

Racked off my last demi-john last night and tried some of the "green" tasting hooch - has a lot of potential in it, not bad for being so young. The great part is, i did something new this year when I racked off. If you get a narrow tallish conainer, you can dump the yeasty swill in it and refrig for a day or so. It clears, then you rack off into yet another bottle and you can enjoy some green cider early (even if you have to backsweeten a touch with fresh cider). In the demijohns that is about 1 half gallon of hooch, the 6.5's about 1 quart.

Almost forgot - I even have a gallon of perry going - though I had to top off with some cider at the first racking so it is technically a blend.

 

[johnnyo1977]

Holy Cow you have a lot of cider. The only other yeast you could have tried is from White labs, English Cider yeast. This is a awesome project. When did you start the batches?
I am looking forward to seeing how they turn out.
I am going to make a 3 gallon batch with S-05 I also want to see how it turns out. I have been told that it makes a realy tasty cider.
I am thinking about doing a spice cider. I am going to make a tea with some vodka and spice then add it to the cider.

 

[CidahMastah]

I have a buddy working on the project with me, but I am the orchestrator - we will be having all too much fun in my cider cellar haha.

I hear you on the white labs - oddly, it was the only cider yeast my LHBS didn't have - I planned to order it via the mail, but forgot!

We had a cider pressing party in October and I put up the first batches of hooch throughout the week as I pressed (Oct 19-22). So unfortunately we have some waiting on the results.

I am actually trying the GRAFF recipe on the forum with the Safale-05 (starting that tonight or this weekend). I think next year I might try to do ale yeasts and see how they do comparison wise (nottingham, etc.) If you haven't tried the GRAFF recipe, you should check it out. Looks interesting, though a lot like brewing beer. The graff could be a good quick way to stave off temptation for early cider tastings - it only takes about 5 weeks to come around.

I like your idea on adding in the cinnamon too. I have thought about doing that, but didn't yet (sure I will try in the future so let me know how it turns out). One of the great things about dry cider is.... very easy tool to use (touch of rum, vodka, cinnamon, etc.). I have heard that if you add the cinnamon it is better to add some at the bulk aging point and the flavors will meld together better - I have no direct experience with it though. Your tea idea almost sounds like brewing (beer). Be sure to cool your tea down to about 70 degrees before adding to the juice. Cooking the juice will likely create a haze (for cider anyway, not sure about regular apple juice)

I have one really nice New England cider that seems to be doing very well flavor wise. I poured some out for a sample when it completed fermentation and it tasted like it had been aged for a couple months already. Big potential in that one.

 

[johnnyo1977]

Sorry did not explain well enough. I will soak the cinnamon and spices in the vodka to extract the flavor. then i can use a pipet to put some in a glass of cider to see how it tastes before i add it to a cider and bulk age it for a week to alow it to fullly blend together.
I do alot of bulk storage thanks to all the people that drink magnum bottles of wine. I also bottle some in 750ml to drink first. After a few months in the big bottles the cider will settle out a little more then when I need a couple of bottles I then transfer to a two 750ml or some 12 oz for judging. I get a little carbination this way to help keep it isolated from too much oxygen. I have kept a few bottles for over 4 years this way especially when i make my cider with the champaine yeast. There is one bottle folating around in the basement that is going on 6 years.

 

[CidahMastah]

Wow six years! Very cool. When you try that one you will have to let us know how it tastes and if the aging improved it up to that point. None of my cider has lasted more than a year, but this year I am sure we will be having plenty left over. when I bottle I plan to divide it all out and space out bottle tastings to test the peak time of the hooch.

 

[johnnyo1977]

I had one bottle that was 5 years old. It tasted like a apple chardonnay. It had a great apple nose and a nice buttery apple with a slight oak characteristic. It was awesome. wish I had more..
Are you going to bottle with magnum bottles or just 750ml? Have you been hitting the recycling places for wine bottles?

 

[pstohs]

Hi there JohnnyO,

I currently have a 3 gallon batch of cider, using your recipe fermenting. I currently am at 2 weeks and did a gravity reading and it's still at 1.031. I was wondering if you had similar results. You said to rack at 2 weeks, but I'm thinking that it still is full out fermenting; I'm still getting bubbles every 6-8 seconds and it's been fermenting in the 65-71 degree range.

I used Red Star Champagne yeast.

Smell is like you said very strong, like vodka, but so far it tastes pretty good, still extremely sweet.

I just wanted to get feedback from someone else who has done this recipe before. I guess more than anything I'm impatient...

Thanks!

 

[johnnyo1977]

I just did a racking of a cider after two weeks. I then put another cider on part of the yeast cake. the champagne yeast will make it quite dry and don't be surprised if you have to wait about a year till it tastes good. Or back sweeten. That cider will have to mellow a little. If you do it again try using a beer yeast or a red wine yeast. Other than that it looks like you are on the right track.

 

[pstohs]

Thank You. I appreciate it! Any specific type of ale yeast? I was going to go with Nottingham next.

 

[johnnyo1977]

Try S-05

 

[CidahMastah]

I had one bottle that was 5 years old. It tasted like a apple chardonnay. It had a great apple nose and a nice buttery apple with a slight oak characteristic. It was awesome. wish I had more..
Are you going to bottle with magnum bottles or just 750ml? Have you been hitting the recycling places for wine bottles?

I will be doing mostly 750mls. But I will bulk age for at least 3-4 months prior to bottling. If I can be patient enough I will wait to bottle around 6 months from start of fermentation to get a good idea of where the cider is going. At that point I can try adding in some spices to individual bottles (i.e. mix a gallon with spices and bottle condition 5 750mls to see how the flavor profile pans out). I planned to do it for the bulk aging, but I had a lot of must to rack and got lost in the effort

I have been hitting my friends for wine bottles! I saved up and sanitized about 100 ish but still have a way to go. Cool thing is... tomorrow I am heading to a wine bottle wholesaler and picking up the rest of the bottles I need. Great prices on the bottles. They start at under $6 a case and up depending on the type if I remember right.

Can you say... dedicated room for a wine cellar?

Like you say, my ciders taste like white wines almost. More a wine than a beer by far. But when they mature they are very tasty and the apple notes come out. I have finally started adding in things to play with the flavors, but before have just enjoyed the wines. The apple blend makes the wine.

I want to continue with large pressings for several years instead of small ones so I can build up an aged cache. It helps having a friend who is interested too - adds to the fun, and helps with the costs

I would get into beer I think, but it is expensive to make. One of the reasons I got into cider was to save some money, and I love growing my apples. Love beer, but will only infrequently brew it when it costs about the same (or more) to buy it in the store.... my .02

 

[CidahMastah]

Thank You. I appreciate it! Any specific type of ale yeast? I was going to go with Nottingham next.

I am going to try safale-05 on my next test batch as well. Most people who do ale yeasts for cider use that or nottingham on this forum.

That said, trying something new will never hurt. White labs is also highly respected with thier english cider one.

 

[johnnyo1977]

I did use the English cider yeast for a cider that i forced carbed. It turned out a little drier than i liked. It is tasting better now that it has been sitting for almost 2 months. I am going to bottle some for thanksgiving to share with the family.

 

[CidahMastah]

Very cool - sharing the quality brew it was it is all about

I just ordered an upgrade (Italian Champagne floor corker). It does wine, champagne and I bought the attachement for capping too. Very excited about it because I have been using the ghetto hand corker with a rubber mallet for too long ha! Then off to pick up my champagne/wine and beer bottles.

I will finally get to making some Graff this holiday weekend. Been putting it off and finally going to pull the trigger.

I love it when a plan comes together! haha

 

[johnnyo1977]

Ok I cracked the 6 year old bottle of cider yesterday. I had a few friends over while brewing a blond ale to help enjoy some ciders. It had a soft apple nose with a medium body and a slight hint of oak. the only problem with the cider was it was the last bottle. It had a great golden color and was extremely clear.

 

[pstohs]

19 Days since I started fermentation. Measured out at 1.000 tonight so it's in the secondary. Still very overpowering vapor, but from tasting it seems like it has a lot of potential. I'm excited to try this again in a month or so!

 

[johnnyo1977]

i cracked a bottle that I made almost a year ago with champagne yeast. it is still a little young but is tasting a lot better. the flavors are blending quite nicely.

 

[LinknJax]

This will be my 2nd batch of hard cider. Although I received rave reviews for the 1st batch, I felt there needed to be more substance in this one. Tried going with a 4 gallon heat and mix for the brown sugar just to ensure a full mixture and cooled to 75 before pitching. Will add the last gallon with 2 cinnamon sticks and oak in the secondary for some active but flavorful additions. Hoping for a Labor Day ready BBQ batch this year.
Last batch ended up too dry for my tastes and didn't have the oak, so am hoping for a sweeter but more substantial finish.

Thanks for the recipe!

 

[Yambor44]

Sorry to drag up an old thread....however, I made this recipe 4 months ago and now would like to bottle in 1.5 gallon glass jugs. Do I need to add anything when bottling?

 

[johnnyo1977]

Nope to have it still just bottle. I have not tried to carb it. If any one does or did please let me know.

 

[JoeyChopps]

Quick ? Would it be ok to leave this in the primary and not do a secondary?

 

[modF]

This will be my 2nd batch of hard cider. Although I received rave reviews for the 1st batch, I felt there needed to be more substance in this one. Tried going with a 4 gallon heat and mix for the brown sugar just to ensure a full mixture and cooled to 75 before pitching. Will add the last gallon with 2 cinnamon sticks and oak in the secondary for some active but flavorful additions. Hoping for a Labor Day ready BBQ batch this year.
Last batch ended up too dry for my tastes and didn't have the oak, so am hoping for a sweeter but more substantial finish.

Thanks for the recipe!

Just wondering how this one came out?

 

[Yambor44]

Nope to have it still just bottle. I have not tried to carb it. If any one does or did please let me know.

I added some carb tabs to it. Came out nice. I only added half of what the label said to add for beer and it about blew the flip top off when I opened it! Im glad I didn't add the whole amount. Very nice recipe. My wife really likes it.

 

[mamerong]

5 gal. cider
5 lbs. dark brown sugar
1 package of cotes des blanc
hand full of french roasted oak chips

when you say 5 gal cider is this like a cider extract or store bought cider juice? sorry i've never brewed cider befor

 

[beardedbil]

I was going to try this recipe for my very first cider. But I only have a 1 gallon kit so I was wondering if this would work well that small:

1 gallon cider
1 lb. dark brown sugar
1 package of wine yeast

Do I not add any other additives? I come from the world of fruit wine where you have to use yeast nutrient, pectic enzyme, Campden tablets, acid blend, etc. Do I not need any of those for this recipe? Really want to make this come out as best I can the first time around. Thanks in advance!
-Bill

 

[tipping]

delete.

 

[jj1940]

I was thinking of using maple syrup as a priming sugar or fo you think it would get to carbonated