Half batch and losses due to trube.

[MaximAvs]

So my Dad has gotten into brewing beer, but is only doing half bathes (2.5 gallons). He figures that's plenty of any one beer before you want to brew another style.
The problem he's running into is he's losing a lot (3/4 gallon) to the trube. He ferments in a 3 gallon carboy, and fills it to 2.5 gallons with wort (partial extract). Then after a couple of weeks fermenting he gets a pretty thick layer on the bottom. His last batch was only 19 bottles worth.
I told him to add more to the fermenter so after it's done he'd have more to bottle. But that still doesn't make up for the 3/4 gallon he's losing.

The only other thing I could think of that might lead to a large amount of trube is that he uses a full packets of yeast (SAFALE 05).
Do you think if he used half a packet of yeast he wouldn't have as much left in the bottom? Or is there some other way of reducing it so there isn't the loss of beer?

Any ideas welcome.
Sean

 

[douglasbarbin]

That is WAY too much trub for a 2.5 gallon batch. From what you are telling us, his batches consist of 30% trub (3 quarts of trub out of a 10 quart batch). There is definitely something fishy about this. I have always used full packets of yeast on batches that size and never had anywhere near that amount of trub.

Tell us more about what he is brewing. Is it extremely high gravity? What are his fermentation temps? You really didn't give us enough info yet to figure out what is going on here. Also, have you seen this large volume of trub with your own eyes? If not, I'm tempted to say that he may be exaggerating the amount of trub he is getting.

 

[onipar]

The first 2 beers I made actually produced 2 cases +2 bottles. I bottled my third batch last weekend, and for some strange reason, suddenly I had a lot more trub, and ended up losing 1/2 a gallon to it. I bottled 2 cases -3 or 4 bottles.

I'm not sure what caused it except that I used a whirlfloc tablet for the first time. That shouldn't create trub (I don't think), but it was the only new thing to my procedure I did.

He may just want to consider doing five gallon batches. Not sure about the yeast amounts.

 

[BryceL]

If I do half batches I usually end up with 19 or 20 bottles...not 24. If he wants 24 then yeah, you need to start with at least 3 gallons of wort, not 2.5. If it's only a 3 gallon fermenter I wouldn't think you could go much more than 2.5 gallons without risking major blowoff. I always use a full pack of yeast. My only suggestion would be to buy a 5 gallon bucket for fermentation, they are pretty cheap. He could still use the 3 gallon fermenter for a secondary if need be.

 

[vitrael]

I lose about a half a gallon to trub and sloppy siphoning in a 5 gallon batch. 3/4 gallons in a 2.5 gallon batch is crazy.

If you're an experienced brewer, maybe brew a batch with him start to finish and see what his siphoning practices look like

 

[JonM]

+1 to what BryceL says.

When I do a half batch, I do 3 gals. too because i can easily fit 2.75 gals in a 3-gal better bottle with plenty of room for krausen. (The only time I came close to having a headspace issue was when I used WLP400 which is notorious for big krausens.)

Anyway, I do 3 gals, which let's me leave a quart of trub and gunk in the kettle and get 2.75 gals of good clean wort into the fermenter. Leave a quart of trub behind on the bottom of the fermenter at bottling time, and I always get at least 24 bottles of very clean beer, and usually 26 or 27.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

One other thing to consider is if he is doing partial boils and not straining out before it goes in the fermenter he is already starting out with less than 2.5 gallons of beer before fermentation even begins. I'm not saying he has to strain it out but he might want to add a little extra water to account for the hops, proteins, etc. that drop out right away.

 

[PHillBrewCo]

19 sounds right for a 2.5 gallon batch. Make 5 gallon batches for more beer

 

[MaximAvs]

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses!!
I think we'll start with adding more water. It could be that the brews just had more proteins.
We look forward to the next brew to try the theory out.

 

[Scratch]

I'm also doing 2.5 gallon batches. The first, I got a few bottles shy of a case. The second, I filled the 3 gallon carboy to about a finger over the 2.5 gallon mark (made with a sharpie right on the glass) and got exactly a case.

One thing you didn't address is the bottling process. The second batch, when I got a full case, I siphoned directly from the primary into the bottles, trusting in the "standoff tip" on the siphon to keep the trub out. It worked: no trub, and I don't think I left more that a half cup of beer or so in the carboy. If your dad is using a bottling bucket, he may be leaving a little too much in the carboy, then a little too much in the bottling bucket.

 

[mredge73]

Maybe try a Mr. Beer fermenter.
It has a 3 gal capacity and I always get 24+ out of it when doing small batches.
This also will help eliminate "sloppy siphoning" since none is needed with the pre-installed valve and you can bottle directly from the fermenter.

 

[logan3825]

I just did a half batch for the first time. It will probably be my last. Just as much work as a full batch. Cost about $25. I could have doubled the batch for about $10 more.

 

[MaximAvs]

I believe he transfers from the 3 gal fermenter into a bottling bucket. But the loss, if any, is very slight from the bottling bucket.

Haven't tried bottling from the Mr. Beer. Isn't that a 2 gal container?

Thanks again for all the ideas!!

Sean

 

[mredge73]

Looks like I got the capacity wrong on the Mr. Beer, it is listed as 2gal but I can fit closer to 2.5 gal in it. I reviewed my bottling notes and on the last brew that I used it for, I filled 21x 12oz bottles and 1x 1L flip top. So 1-2 bottles shy of a full case.

 

[MaximAvs]

Looks like I got the capacity wrong on the Mr. Beer, it is listed as 2gal but I can fit closer to 2.5 gal in it. I reviewed my bottling notes and on the last brew that I used it for, I filled 21x 12oz bottles and 1x 1L flip top. So 1-2 bottles shy of a full case.

Thanks for checking on that! So maybe his losses are in line. The odd one might come up short, but it's to be expected.

Sean

 

[Scratch]

Thanks for checking on that! So maybe his losses are in line. The odd one might come up short, but it's to be expected.

Sean

I bottled a half batch using Mr. Beer as a bottling bucket (with a new spigot and bottling attachment, like I read about in another thread here.) I came out a couple bottles shy of a case, but Mr. Beer wasn't full to the top either. I'm pretty sure you could fit a case in there. I had exactly 2.5 gallons at the end of my boil, so probably lost a bottle or two in the trub and during transfer.

 

[MaximAvs]

Thanks again for all the replies!!

My Dad went ahead and signed up for his own account in HomeBrewTalk.com.

You can see his post on this topic here..

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/help-best-way-filter-hot-break-259611/