Hacking Commercial Suicide

[burninator]

I've been thinking lately that it would be fun to branch out from the Belgian and German style sours I've always done and try something more off the beaten path. So I'm thinking a dark mild will be my next funky beer.

I'm wondering a couple of things before I dive in, and I how the community can lend some experience.

First, I haven't had Commercial Suicide before. Based on the recipe JK posted on the site, this beer starts around 1.024. Can that be right? Even my table beer has an OG over 1.030.

Second, how dark should this be? I'm anticipating a very dark amber or light brown.

Third, I may do this as a split batch, with half of it staying clean. What yeast pitching schedule is recommended? Co-pitch? Sour in secondary? And would a saison yeast work best, or should I stick with English?

Thanks for any help y'all can provide.

 

[mitchard]

I'm seeing 3.2% ABV online. 1.024 down to 1.000 would yield around 3.15% ABV, with an apparent attenuation of 100%. I don't think you'll have luck with getting an English strain that dry without some help from Brett. You'll have better success with something like 3711 French Saison, but it still will need some Brett to get it to finish that low.

 

[burninator]

That's a great point. I have a saison-ish strain that could definitely do the job without any help. Sounds like this wouldn't be a great candidate for a split batch with English yeast, though.

I'd welcome any other tips and tricks.

 

[505-Brewer]

I remember this beer before it was funky/soured. Had it w Fois Gras before the Rush concert in Austin. Reminisce over.

 

[burninator]

I remember this beer before it was funky/soured. Had it w Fois Gras before the Rush concert in Austin. Reminisce over.

You're talking just fermented with 3711?

 

[gometz]

That should be right. Their beers are really dry (which I like). I'd suggest using 3711 at low temperatures and tossing in dregs from something.
The original ones were also pretty heavy on the oak.

I'm also about to start a beer similar to their provenance orange and grapefruit. They're really responsive and helpful.

 

[burninator]

Thanks, @gometz. I have a table saison in primary right now that was fermented with wild yeast and dregs from last year's sour table beer. Maybe I'll rack that to another vessel and pitch my dark mild onto the cake.

 

[505-Brewer]

You're talking just fermented with 3711?

Im not sure what is was fermented with. It basically tasted like a regular mild ale. Not funky, not sour. Just tasty. Not sure how it tastes now. Ive made a nice sour porter. I think a dark mild would be super session-able.

 

[burninator]

Alright, I'm going to put this together in the next few weeks. Probably split off a couple of gallons to ferment with English yeast and let the rest of it get dirty.

Here's the recipe I've put together, tentatively:

5.5 gal
1.024 OG

60oz US Pils
6oz brown malt
6oz 45l crystal
5oz chocolate malt
5oz flaked oats
3oz amber malt

either Willamette (to 20IBU) or aged hops

 

[burninator]

I brewed this beer over the weekend. Same proportions as above, but I bumped the gravity up to 1.030. I mashed at 156 for one hour. Racked 5.5 gallons to a carboy and pitched my wild saison-ish yeast and dregs from a bottle of a rye sour I brewed last year. This morning it has a thick, bubbly pellicle, which I assume will be gone by the time I get home.

I also racked two gallons to a bucket with a third of a pack of S-04. I'll put a few ounces of Hungarian oak cubes into that for a week or two before I transfer them over to the sour batch.

 

[burninator]

Six weeks since brew day, and the clean portion of this beer is drinking very well, though a bit under-carbed. I must've mis-measured the priming sugar.

The sour portion has darkened as yeast has dropped out of suspension. There's a patchy pellicle on top, and the smell from the airlock has become a little more fruity than before.

At this point, I'm aiming for around the 8 or 9 week mark to start tasting and planning for bottling. Having started at 1.030 SG, I figure that's plenty of time to reach a terminal gravity, but it's early enough that the beer should continue to develop in the bottle.

 

[burninator]

This Saturday will mark 9 weeks since brewing, and I plan to take a sample and a taste, but I'm looking for advice. I had planned to oak this beer using some cubes pulled from a Flanders red, but I haven't topped off that carboy yet, so I don't have a way to pull out the oak cubes.

Two questions:

1. Would you use fresh Hungarian oak cubes in a beer like this, or wait and get the used ones, so as not to overwhelm the beer? I probably won't leave it on oak for more than a few weeks.

2. What's the group's thoughts on fruit or other additions for this beer? I rarely bottle a full batch all at once, so half of this 5 gallon batch will go into secondary with an addition of some kind.

 

[505-Brewer]

Id let it age up. Once you think its done or near it then add the oak. Cubes seem to oak pretty fast. Might even want to boil them up to remove some tannins.

 

[burninator]

Id let it age up. Once you think its done or near it then add the oak. Cubes seem to oak pretty fast. Might even want to boil them up to remove some tannins.

Sounds about right. If I could get to the used ones, I think they'd be perfect. Boiled them before they spent a couple of weeks in a clean dark mild, and they've been in the sour red for a month and a half.

I did take a sample of this beer today, and it's still at 1.008, same as a few weeks ago. It's cleared beautifully, and it's much closer to red than I expected.

There is still a bit of the base beer's character, with some sweetness and cocoa. There is also a subtle tartness, with leather and some stone fruit (cherry?). I get a little funkiness in the aroma. I think I understand the "vinous" descriptor I hear sometimes when people talk about JK's Commercial Suicide.