gruit/braggot recipe attempt

[mlewis91]

so iv made a few beers...but never tried to get creative and make my own recipe, so here it goes

I want to make a braggot but with mug wort and juniperror berries instead of hops, I was thinking something along these lines

for 5 gallons:

-7 llbs honey
- 2 llbs vienna malts
- 4 llbs 2 row malts
-1 llbs crystal Carmel malts
-.5 llbs dark roasted malts
-1 oz irish moss (15 min)
-1 oz mug wort (1/2 for 60 min, 1/2 for 15 min )
-1/2 oz juniper berries (15 min)

I'd like to try and brew this weekend, if anyone sees a problem with this recipe or an idea on how to improve it please let me know asap.

* mug wort is also known own as bog Myrtle if that helps at all

 

[mlewis91]

I'm mostly worried about the grain bill

 

[Lefou]

I'm mostly worried about the grain bill

Your grain bill is OK.
By the BJCP standard, braggot has a 20-50% honey level and there's no real determination on "proper color". It's pretty much an open category for creative people.
I like the idea of using two row and Vienna malt. Vienna is one of my favorite grains. A nice level of diastatic grain should give you a generous dose of minerals and nutrients not present in your honey.

Are you mashing or steeping?
Your temps doing either will influence the result because the honey typically ferments well, drying your brew.
What yeast are you considering? I'm curious.

 

[mlewis91]

thank you for checking my grain bill, honestly im probably not ready to create my own recipe yet, iv made 3 batches of beer before but they all were from kits

I was planning on mashing but if you think stepping would work better I'm not against trying it out

and as far as yeast I have no idea yet, I'm going to the store later today to pick out a yeast and buy a few other supplies....any recommendations would be very appreciated

 

[Lefou]

Mashing the grains would be my choice. It's more efficient because you''ll get better starch conversion and sugar extraction that way.
Brewing in a bag (BIAB) would be an excellent compromise, as long as you have a pot large enough to accommodate the grain and water.

I'd recommend mashing at 152-155F. Use roughly 3gal of water at 162-165F to account for .3gal of water absorption per pound in your grain.
There are calculators for adjusting your water temperature and mash thickness. Check them out.

Not sure what beer or ale styles you like, but yeast and fermentation temperatures matter. Please don't choose a strong Lalvin champagne yeast like EC-1116 or EC-1118. An ale yeast will do fine.
Your braggot's starting gravity is above 1.050, so make a nice starter. Starters are easy to do, so I'd recommend it for both dry and liquid yeasts. Other than that, the sky's the limit.

 

[mlewis91]

thank you for the help...like I said I'm in over my head lol

I'm on my way to the store now to buy the yeast and I'll look into how to do a starter maybe I'll be able to pull that off.

I'll post an update later

 

[Lefou]

Here's what I came up with using Brewer's Friend using:

Clover honey
American pale 2-row and American Vienna
Crystal 40 and American Dark Chocolate

Starting gravity: 1.090 SRM: 22
Finish gravity: 1.007 ABV: 10.8%
Yeast: Safale/Fermentis American Ale US-05

Not sure how your mugwort bitters or accents the brew, so I chose Safale S-05. US-05 is typical and strong enough to reach above its rated alcohol tolerance.

 

[Lefou]

From my personal standpoint, I'd actually lower the fermentables by half.
It would lighten your brew and lower your ABV level to about 5.5%

That would reduce the chance for fusel alcohols and off flavors. The high alcohol level would mandate a bit of aging. I assume you'd want to drink it sooner, so reducing the alcohol content would be a good idea.

 

[mlewis91]

hmm, we're would you start reducing...I was already debating cutting the honey to 5 llbs vs 7...because the honey I bought is in 5 llbs jugs.

so maybe:
5 llbs honey
3 llbs 2 row
2 llbs vienna
.5 llbs crystal malts
.5 llbs dark roasted malts

 

[Lefou]

Reducing honey would be a great place to start. Sorry for not replying sooner. Had to get a few things done, but your thread has my attention.

Honey is a great ingredient, but it's probably the most costly ingredient in your recipe. Good old clover honey from Costco will cost me about $13-$14 for a 5lb. pasteurized container.
It's a great yeast food and will ferment down almost entirely. In other words, honey's an expensive sugar compared to what your grains will contribute. I suggested halving your recipe for a couple reasons - it would reduce your cost, your time, and alcohol content while giving you the ability to do TWO braggots for the same price as the first recipe..
What's not to like about having more to drink? But if you're looking for a way to boost alcohol, honey is easy but expensive solution.

As long as you keep the honey to between 20-50%, you should be OK.

 

[mlewis91]

I brewed today..I did cut back alittle, however I brewed before reading your last reply

I did roughly 4 llbs honey
and I tooka pound of base malts out. they were mixed when they miled them at the store so I don't know the exact amount of each now but I'll assume around .5 llbs of each (the im sure I lost more 2 row then vienna since it had more 2 row in it)

so I'm looking at
4 llbs honey,
1.5 llbs German vienna
2.5 llbs German 2 row
.5 llbs Carmel malts
.5 dark roasted malts

my staying gravity was 1.082

...also I decided to go with German base makes because the store near my house only had German vienna, so I went ahead and got German 2 row as well vs the American I was planning on using

and I used dry ale yeast

 

[mlewis91]

after this batch is in the 2nd carboy (probably 2 weeks) im going to try to make another one and I'm definitely going to try to aim for more of a 5% abv....I'm really interested in trying some diffrent braggot recipes to find one I like.

 

[dmtaylor]

* mug wort is also known own as bog Myrtle if that helps at all

I love the idea for this brew. I'm sure it will turn out great!

Just need to point out:

* Mugwort is NOT the same thing as bog myrtle.

Bog myrtle, sweet gale, and myrica gale are all the same thing though. For something totally different, try this instead of the mugwort next time. Mugwort is good but sweet gale (the term I prefer to use) tastes like menthol and eucalyptus, like Hall's cough drops. It adds an interesting twist, and was most traditional.

Other traditional gruit herbs were yarrow and wild rosemary. I've never been able to find the real rosemary, but the yarrow grows everywhere. Yarrow adds a floral character, bitterness, and tartness as well. Use restraint with it, maybe only 1/4 of the amount you would use for hops, as the character is quite strong and distinctive.

Of all the above herbs, I like sweet gale / bog myrtle the best, mugwort second, yarrow third.

I source my herbs from wildweeds.com. Look them up for more ideas!

Cheers and enjoy experimenting with the herbs!

 

[Lefou]

What dry yeast did you choose?

 

[mlewis91]

I'll definitely look into those other herbs thank you.. especially the yarrow because I'm doing a 1 gallon mead next week and a floral note would probably go good in that.

and I used Safale S-04 Dry Ale Yeast.

honestly I don't know much about yeast yet I'm still learning. i told the owner of brewers art supply the yeast you recomended and she said that was the closest she had.

they also didn't have liquid yeast there which upset me..I'll probably order online next time

 

[Lefou]

S-04 would be a good choice, especially given the honey's drying effect on your brew.
S-04 doesn't attenuate or "eat" the sugars as much as S-05 and is used for English ales or New England ciders.
It settles out of suspension after fermentation really well, too.

 

[mlewis91]

my braggot is still bubbling strong..plan on moving it to 2nd fermenter next Saturday (after 2 weeks has passed)

my question now is rather or not I should carbonate it....I'm a fan of stouts, alot of which have little to no carbonation, and it's half mead which normally is not carbonated.

also with it being half mead does anyone know about how long I should age the brew before trying it? my plan at the moment is 2 weeks in primary, 2 weeks in secondary. then open a bottle every 2 weeks till I think it's ready. however if it's going to need to age for a few months I might wait and start tasting after 4 or 5 months.

 

[Lefou]

With a gravity like that, you will end up with something around 8-10% ABV.

I only use hops so couldn't really tell you how the bittering would affect taste, but with malts and no carbonation, it will tend toward sweet. What I CAN say is your braggot is in the wine alcohol range and should last for months given good storage temperatures.
Referring you here... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=136992&page=2

 

[mlewis91]

bottling tonight!....im still nervous on how this will taste.

when I switched to secondary I added some dates and some juniper berries, I boiled both in a pot with a little water till the water was gone then put them in a bag in the freezer till time to add.

when I switched the beer smelled great and I was excited, however this was my first all grain batch and I had alot of sediment on the bottom of the carboy. when I was cleaning the carboy out the sediment had an awful smell to it...im just hoping none of that smell makes it into my finished beers taste.

ill probably taste a little of it tonight when I'm bottling and check gravity

 

[madscientist451]

bottling tonight!....im still nervous on how this will taste.

ill probably taste a little of it tonight when I'm bottling and check gravity

Give it a taste and THEN decide if its ready to bottle. The gravity check should be done long before bottling day. You should really do a gravity check when its done and then another 3-4 days later to see of there has been any change. If the gravity has changed, its not ready to bottle yet.
If the pre-bottling taste doesn't suit you, you can make some adjustments. Once you bottle it, its pretty much a done deal unless you want to "mix in the glass" as you consume it.
It also may be better to age the braggot in bulk and bottling it later on.
A recent podcast about braggots discussed the idea of fermenting the beer portion for the braggot separately and making a mead with the honey and fermenting that by itself. Mead is different than beer, and the staggered yeast additions and the de-gassing process gives you a drinkable product quicker. After the two parts are done, you blend to taste.

 

[mlewis91]

ill give it a taste tonight then and see if it's ready, iv always just taken my reading when I bottled but it definitely makes more since the way you suggested..

i may try to keep them separate next time, I like the idea..i sorta started this brew as an experiment and if learned alot in the last month since....regardless of how this turns out I'm making another similar braggot soon afterwards. I have so many ideas in my head for this and I can't wait to try them

 

[mlewis91]

i tasted it before bottling, I was surprised how overpowering the "mead" taste was. had little no beer taste. I'm hoping as it ages it'll bring out more flavor.

as it sits now tho it taste like a pretty decent mead. just a hint of dry but not to much, and it finished at 9.8 % abv

i went ahead and bottled it and ill try the first one in a few weels

 

[mlewis91]

strangely the braggot taste "watered down"

its 10% alcohol and slightly sour tasting...not a bad tasting brew but I definitely want to change it up before I try this recipe again.

maybe less honey and more malts, or maybe more of the mugwort and juniper because they are non existent in the taste.

but then again maybe it'll age better, right now it's been in bottled for a month, ill try another one in a few weeks and see if it improves at all

 

[dmtaylor]

It may continue to get more sour with age. If you like sour beer, this can be a good thing. I'll bet I would enjoy it.

 

[mlewis91]

I'm okay with sour beers im just confused why it's sour... it does have a good taste to it

 

[dmtaylor]

Gruit herbs are naturally sour, plus they don't have very good preservative properties (like hops would in beer), so it's likely that every gruit will eventually turn sour with age.

 

[mlewis91]

now that this beer has aged a few months I actually like it alot, it doesn't taste watered down at all anymore, but you also can not tell at all that the abv is over 10%

I'm about to start working on the recipe and try to make it again with some improvements.

but as the recipe stands now it's not a half bad beer. just alittle sour, but not enough to be unpleasant...cant wait to see how it continues to age. so far it's only been getting better.


also I forgot to put in here that I put elderberries and a little but of juniper in the secondary....just enough for a hint which the more I drink this beer the more I wish I added more berries