Grain Tea

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

The first beer I brewed was the Block Party Amber from NB, grains steeped in 2-3 gal of water for 45min. That made sense.
2nd batch today was from my local brew store (conehead IPA) and called for 1.5qts Per lb of grain, then sparging(?) the grains with another 1.5qts and finally add water to get to the 3.5gal.

What is the reasoning/explanation between the two methods?

 

[Sam_92]

The first kit must have been mostly extract, when you steeped them the goal was to extract flavor and color but not sugars because that was provided by the malt extract.
This new kit you picked up sounds like it's an all grain kit so you will need to mash the grains around 150°F for an hour to convert the starches in the grain to sugar. Do you have the equipment available to do all grain brewing?

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

The first kit must have been mostly extract, when you steeped them the goal was to extract flavor and color but not sugars because that was provided by the malt extract.
This new kit you picked up sounds like it's an all grain kit so you will need to mash the grains around 150°F for an hour to convert the starches in the grain to sugar. Do you have the equipment available to do all grain brewing?

Thanks for that. Yeah the first one had a big jug of malt extract and this IPA had 2 bags, one malt extract at the beginning of boil (1lb) and another at flame out (7lbs). I was able to brew it today, much prefer the extract kit as a beginner.

 

[bracconiere]

is there not a sticky on HBT?


what temp did they tell you to let the extract to get to before adding the 7lbs of malt....then rinsing it ? can you post the recipe ingredients?

and sparging....think of it as a soapy sponge that you need to get the soap out of, but instead of squeezing like the BIAB'ers you use water pressure....


and welcome, i'm not the best linguist here.....

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

is there not a sticky on HBT?


what temp did they tell you to let the extract to get to before adding the 7lbs of malt....then rinsing it ? can you post the recipe ingredients?

and sparging....think of it as a soapy sponge that you need to get the soap out of, but instead of squeezing like the BIAB'ers you use water pressure....


and welcome, i'm not the best linguist here.....

The instructions were a very basic/general brew guide with a ingredients list. Honestly, won't be buying from them again until I get a better understanding of brewing (will stick to extract.)

It just had a label LME #1/#2, #1 was 1lb (all it said was AT BOIL, #2 was the 7lb and said (at flameout).

Had Irish moss at the last 20min of boil and water additives before boil.

 

[bracconiere]

It just had a label LME #1/#2, #1 was 1lb (all it said was AT BOIL, #2 was the 7lb and said (at flameout).

don't lisen to me.....i'm just confused why it called for sparging...if it's extract, i assure you it's been sparged as much as they can sparge it before selling it....and mashed great too...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What is the reasoning/explanation between the two methods?

If there were base malts in the second kit, then a mash (rather than a steep) would be appropriate.

 

[Stormcrow]

When you get time, you should read up a little on "brew in a bag" which is usually shorthanded as BIAB. It's a great way to jump into all grain.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

When you get time, you should read up a little on "brew in a bag" which is usually shorthanded as BIAB. It's a great way to jump into all grain.

I have very little space to work with currently, think I'll stay away from all grain for the time and stick with extract. I'll check out the section though.

 

[Stormcrow]

I have very little space to work with currently, think I'll stay away from all grain for the time and stick with extract. I'll check out the section though.

Please do. It really doesn't use any more space than extract and the only additional equipment you need right away is the bag.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

Please do. It really doesn't use any more space than extract and the only additional equipment you need right away is the bag.

From what I'm reading the recipe I used just doesn't make sense. 1.5qt of mash then 1.5qt to sparge? Top with water to 3.5gal

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Partial mash - for example Easy Partial Mash Brewing with pics (2008, link) - deserves a mention here.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

Partial mash - for example Easy Partial Mash Brewing with pics (2008, link) - deserves a mention here.

Just browsing through it you used 2gal of water, that makes sense. The first beer I did was extract and called for the same thing. But 1.5 QTS? literally 48oz of water to mash and another 48oz to sparge for a 3.5gal wort?! Seems wild and to be honest I don't think enough sugar was pulled from grains to ferment.
Currently around 24hrs fermenting, yeast was SAL-05. It's not very active. It's in my closet, temp between 68-72.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

But 1.5 QTS? literally 48oz of water to mash and another 48oz to sparge for a 3.5gal wort?! Seems wild and to be honest I don't think enough sugar was pulled from grains to ferment.

At first glance (and with the information in this topic so far), the mash/steep process for the IPA (2nd) recipe is a little puzzling. Being able to see a complete recipe would be helpful - but you mentioned the kit was from a LHBS -- so I assumed the recipe wasn't available on the interwebs. If the recipe is online and it's easy to provide a link to it, that could be helpful.

Currently around 24hrs fermenting, yeast was SAL-05. It's not very active. It's in my closet, temp between 68-72.

I find that SAL-05 (US-05) can be a slow starter - and seeing some activity after 24 hours is proof the yeast are "getting to work".

Beer is being made!

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

At first glance (and with the information in this topic so far), the mash/steep process for the IPA (2nd) recipe is a little puzzling. Being able to see a complete recipe would be helpful - but you mentioned the kit was from a LHBS -- so I assumed the recipe wasn't available on the interwebs. If the recipe is online and it's easy to provide a link to it, that could be helpful.


I find that SAL-05 (US-05) can be a slow starter - and seeing some activity after 24 hours is proof the yeast are "getting to work".

Beer is being made!

I posted ingredients list/basic brew instructions

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

OG was 1.090

 

[Sam_92]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't get 5 gallons into the fermenter. You mentioned topping up to 3.5 gallons so I'm guessing that the instructions this kit were just plain terrible. I highly recommend reading John Palmers How to Brew and other brewing books.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you didn't get 5 gallons into the fermenter. You mentioned topping up to 3.5 gallons so I'm guessing that the instructions this kit were just plain terrible. I highly recommend reading John Palmers How to Brew and other brewing books.

3.5 gal wort went into the fermenter then added water to get to the 5gal mark. But, yes, the instructions were plain terrible.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I posted ingredients list/basic brew instructions

I was not expecting you to take photos of the kit instructions, but that definitely helps move the discussion forward.

For a new brewer, these instructions are missing information. Often that information is included in a "starter kit". I'll suggest checking with your LHBS with regard to "getting started" information.

On the "Conehead IPA" page, the information / instructions look good. The process is a partial boil with late additions (which is covered well in How To Brew, 4e, chapter 1). IMO, the gypsum water adjustment is appropriate for a low mineral water source and Briess DME.

The "steeping" process (on the "Your Basic Brewing Instructions" page) reads like instructions for a mash. With CaraHell (or other crystal / caramel / roasted malts), this could be simplified to the process that you see in the Block Party Amber recipe. On the other hand, if/when you look into partial mashing, these instructions are an excellent starting point.

I'll suggest spending some time to get to know the people in your LBHS better.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

I was not expecting you to take photos of the kit instructions, but that definitely helps move the discussion forward.

For a new brewer, these instructions are missing information. Often that information is included in a "starter kit". I'll suggest checking with your LHBS with regard to "getting started" information.

On the "Conehead IPA" page, the information / instructions look good. The process is a partial boil with late additions (which is covered well in How To Brew, 4e, chapter 1). IMO, the gypsum water adjustment is appropriate for a low mineral water source and Briess DME.

The "steeping" process (on the "Your Basic Brewing Instructions" page) reads like instructions for a mash. With CaraHell (or other crystal / caramel / roasted malts), this could be simplified to the process that you see in the Block Party Amber recipe. On the other hand, if/when you look into partial mashing, these instructions are an excellent starting point.

I'll suggest spending some time to get to know the people in your LBHS better.

thanks a bunch for the feedback. I'll have to order that book.
I will see how this turns out, I did order a new extract recipe from Northern Brewer (their instructions are very clear and easy to follow), to brew in a week because I am already writing this Conehead IPA off as a loss in my mind.

I will bottle a dozen or so when its ready and give it two weeks in the bottle to see how it is. I don't want to bottle 40+ just to dump them out after cracking the first one

 

[Sam_92]

Well don't do that ever. I have had a beer that's not very good but sit on it for a while and see how it develops. Beer made at home is a living thing and the flavor changes as it conditions and ages. Some things won't age out but almost everyone has friends that will drink it.

 

[Kickass]

Don’t write it off. Beer is resilient. It’s harder to mess up than you think.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I am already writing this Conehead IPA off as a loss in my mind.

To be clear, a "steep" and a "mash" of CaraHell will result in the same outcome - flavors, colors, and some sugar will be extracted.

The beer won't be ruined by using a "mash" process where only a "steep" process is necessary.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

Alright, you guys gave me hope on it haha. Seems the yeast is a lot more active now, after 36hrs

 

[marc1]

OG was 1.090

I'm guessing that either your volumes or your measurements are off for that.

This was after you thoroughly mixed everything thoroughly to 5 gallons in your fermenter? And measured at the calibration temp of your hydrometer?

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

I'm guessing that either your volumes or your measurements are off for that.

This was after you thoroughly mixed everything thoroughly to 5 gallons in your fermenter? And measured at the calibration temp of your hydrometer?

The wort was poured from boiling kettle to bucket (should be good aeration, no?). Topped off with water, yeast pitched. I took the reading a few hours after pitching yeast (wasn't active yet and I have a valve on the bottom so didn't introduce any O2).

 

[marc1]

The wort was poured from boiling kettle to bucket (should be good aeration, no?). Topped off with water, yeast pitched. I took the reading a few hours after pitching yeast (wasn't active yet and I have a valve on the bottom so didn't introduce any O2).

If you didn't stir in the water addition to top up to 5 gallons, then pulled from the bottom, you may have measured the more concentrated undiluted wort. This seems to be somewhat common to have happen, except it's usually people getting too low of an OG because they pulled it from the watery top part.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

If you didn't stir in the water addition to top up to 5 gallons, then pulled from the bottom, you may have measured the more concentrated undiluted wort. This seems to be somewhat common to have happen, except it's usually people getting too low of an OG because they pulled it from the watery top part.

Won't do any harm to shake it up while fermenting correct?
If there is then I'll ride it out and check FG before bottling.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Won't do any harm to shake it up while fermenting correct?
If there is then I'll ride it out and check FG before bottling.

It will mix on its own at this point, since fermentation has started, if you were to shake it, a tremendous amount of CO2 could come out of solution all at once and you could end up with and unstoppable volcano of fermenting beer coming out of your fermentation vessel, creating a huge mess.

 

[AintEZbeinYeasty]

It will mix on its own at this point, since fermentation has started, if you were to shake it, a tremendous amount of CO2 could come out of solution all at once and you could end up with and unstoppable volcano of fermenting beer coming out of your fermentation vessel, creating a huge mess.

Thanks Doc!