grain first?

[bluesman88]

When I mash I have always added the grain first then the water. Is there a preferred method or does it even matter?

Bluesman

 

[Yooper]

In his book, How to Brew, John Palmer says to add the water to the grain, never vice versa. However, I always add the water first. I put about 1.5 gallons of strike water in the MLT, and then add the grain while stirring. This reduces my doughballs, and then I add more water, more grain, etc.

I also do this because I add hotter water than called for, and let it cool in my cooler MLT. That preheats my mashtun.

 

[brrman]

I do the same (water to grain). I would guess It all depends if you preheat your tun first, or you adjust your strike water temp for heat loss...l

 

[big supper]

I heat my strike water a few degrees too hot, pour it into the Mash tun, close it up to preheat for 5-10 mins. At that point i check the temp of the water. Sometimes I have to leave the lid off a bit to let the temp lower to my strike temp. Then I add the grains about 1/3 at a time, stirring well.

Got this from Bobby M. Thanks Bobby!!

 

[Revvy]

I think it's really a matter of preference, actually...I used to do water do grain

But it actually seems to make more sense to add grain to water, in a cooler mash tun, since you can do like Bobby M said, and preheat your mash tun.

Some people (including the basic brewing podcast guys, claim that doing water to grain encourages doughballs as well.)


I was wondering if the chubby comment would be sig worthy, thanks Yoop!

 

[doubleb]

I just want to point out that Palmer's reasoning behind adding water to the grain is so you don't shock the starch converting enzymes with lots of warm water all at once.

I'm planning on using the grain first method, but actually prefer adding the water first. My methods aren't set in stone yet so I may in the end go for something like yooper describes.

 

[Gordie]

Much of what I've read suggests doughing in by adding a little water to wet down the grain at around 95-100 deg to aid in distributing enzymes and to gelatinize some of the starch to aid conversion later. After you make the oatmeal, you add your strike water.

I've got a direct fire MLT which makes is a bit easier to step up the temps, but most of the time I just heat my water to strike temp and throw my grain in and stirstirstir because it’s easier.

 

[WBC]

For new brewers I suggest the water first a few degrees higher and in the quantity called for in this recipe to preheat the mash-tun and when the mash-tun has stabilized (does not change temperature any more) at the strike temperature you can stir in the grains (stir well). Once that mash has stabilized (lid on) you should be spot on mash temperature. Always stir the mash before taking the temperature in several places. It's a mater of thermal dynamics, if you add a given temperature (grain temperature - measured quantity) to another temperature (strike water - measured quantity) you will be at the calculated temperature exactly once it has stabilized again.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I am a grain to water brewer. Have to be. My batches are usually too large for my keggle HLT (without re-filling and heating mid brew) so I direct fire my strike water in the MLT. That leaves me with plenty of sparge water and usually some warm cleaning water.

Although Yooper does raise my curiosity. It's been a while since I read Palmer and I am wondering what the logic is behind "always water to grain". Gonna have to open that book up and have a look see. Either way, it won;t change my practice cause it works best for me but, it does raise an eyebrow.

 

[wildwest450]

I just want to point out that Palmer's reasoning behind adding water to the grain is so you don't shock the starch converting enzymes with lots of warm water all at once.

What's the difference between adding grains warm water, or adding warm water to the grains? IMO it's way easier to gradually add your grains to the water, zero dough balls.

 

[DeathBrewer]

water, grain, stir, water, grain, stir, water, grain, stir, etc.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I just want to point out that Palmer's reasoning behind adding water to the grain is so you don't shock the starch converting enzymes with lots of warm water all at once.

Makes some sense, I suppose. However, I just dump everything into the water as fast as I can and then use a paint mixer to stir it all up and eliminate the dough balls.

When I have help, I still do this only my helper adds the grain at a slower rate while the mixer is going.

 

[WBC]

The whole point of water first is to make sure you are at strike temperature and stabilized. Then you can add the grain without any reason not to hit the mash temperature! If you go grain first then how do you know that your mash-tun is not going to reduce the temperature or increase it as it's mass temperature is the third variable? Water first ensures that this variable is out of the equation because the mashtun is the same temperature as the strike water. I get no doughballs as grain only sinks after it gets wet and will not float and I am stirring the whole time I am adding the grain.

 

[balto charlie]

If water is first then the first grains to hit the water will be have too high a temperature. This might affect the enzymes. Maybe(just a thought) like a mash out?? If grains first then the temp would slowly raise the grain temps preventing "mash out" like symptom. To get the right temps you need to have all the variables right, grain temp, water temp, grain amount, water amount, mash tun temp etc

 

[the_bird]

water, grain, stir, water, grain, stir, water, grain, stir, etc.

Yup, exactly how I do it. Easier to stir and get rid of doughballs working with a modest amount of grain at a time. Water first, grain, stire, more water, more grain, stir, last of the water, last of the grain, stir, let set for a minute check temp, close lid.

 

[EvilTOJ]

The way I do it is water, let it rest, then grain, stir, grain, stir, grain, stir, finally get fed up and pour in the rest of the grain, stir like mad, take a deep whiff of that wonderful smell, close lid.

 

[AnOldUR]

If water is first then the first grains to hit the water will be have too high a temperature. This might affect the enzymes. Maybe(just a thought) like a mash out?? If grains first then the temp would slowly raise the grain temps preventing "mash out" like symptom. To get the right temps you need to have all the variables right, grain temp, water temp, grain amount, water amount, mash tun temp etc

In the grain first scenario, there is a small amount of grain that is hit with the higher temperature strike water (before it stabilizes) that is effected in the same way as the second scenario in which the small amount of initial grain is brought to a higher temperature until that becomes stable. The only difference I see is the mash thickness and don’t you get less enzyme reaction in a thin mash?

I think that in either case the time the grain temperature is raised is short enough that it won’t cause mash-out conditions.

 

[INeedANewHobby]

Much of what I've read suggests doughing in by adding a little water to wet down the grain at around 95-100 deg to aid in distributing enzymes and to gelatinize some of the starch to aid conversion later. After you make the oatmeal, you add your strike water.

I've got a direct fire MLT which makes is a bit easier to step up the temps, but most of the time I just heat my water to strike temp and throw my grain in and stirstirstir because it’s easier.

Although I do not practice the true "doughing in" method, I do believe it to be the best method and historically was the way "they" did it as well! Gregory Noonan talks about this in his book "New Brewing Lager Beer" extensively and gives the reasoning and science behind it.

 

[AiredAle]

I add grain to water after the water heats up my cooler MLT. I did wonder about the first grain being overheated and enzyme denaturing, but after some thought, I don't believe this is an issue at all. Enzymes do denature when they're dissolved in water and heated too hot, but when the malt hits the hot water the enzymes are in the solid state in the grain particles, Since they've already survived kilning temperatures in this condition, I don't think a couple minutes more exposure to those temps as they are mixed into the mash water will affect them at all.

By the time the enzymes are hydrated and dissolved out of the malt particles and become vulnerable to denaturation by heat, the temp is leveled out to the desired mash temperature, and off they go to do their magic.

So I say, carry on adding grain to water and RDWHAHB.

 

[DeathBrewer]

that's what i do in my keg mash tun. just heat up the water and add, stir, add, stir, etc. works fine and there's less loss of heat than when i use the cooler.

 

[budbo]

I use a keggle Mash tun, I heat the water in the Mash tun to strike temp (which serves to preheat it) then pour in half the grain, Stir , add the rest, stir again, Check temp, once at temp I use a water softener insulation wrap to wrap it, then walk away.