Grain crush for BIAB. Am I screwed?

[HopsAreGood]

As the title says I BIAB. My local HBS is unfortunately closed due to covid-19 so I went ahead and ordered ingredients from morebeer. When I get my grains from my normal store I just tell them BIAB crush and they basically pulverize it for me.

Now, when ordering grains from more beer I selected the “milled” option assuming it wouldn’t be quite as fine as the BIAB crush, but would still be ok. Well now that they arrived I’m not so sure. Does this look like it will be ok for BIAB? I don’t have a mill and I’m not sure if there’s any diy way to crush this down further. Any info is appreciated.

 

[brew703]

Use a food processor.
I too BIAB but I have my own mill. Got tired of the crappy crush I would get from the HBS.

 

[Steveruch]

You'll have a lower OG, but will still have beer. Do you have any extract you could use to boost it up a bit?

 

[Dgallo]

View attachment 673636 View attachment 673634 View attachment 673635 As the title says I BIAB. My local HBS is unfortunately closed due to covid-19 so I went ahead and ordered ingredients from morebeer. When I get my grains from my normal store I just tell them BIAB crush and they basically pulverize it for me.

Now, when ordering grains from more beer I selected the “milled” option assuming it wouldn’t be quite as fine as the BIAB crush, but would still be ok. Well now that they arrived I’m not so sure. Does this look like it will be ok for BIAB? I don’t have a mill and I’m not sure if there’s any diy way to crush this down further. Any info is appreciated.

I had this same thing happen to me from morebeer, very poor crush. I posted about it here and got a how bunch of ppl give me crap about saying it’s a crap crush. Because of that and that I’m stubborn I brewed with it to prove a point. Out of 17lbs of grain I yielded on 1.051. So I wouldn’t brew with unless you can run it through a food processor or blender quick. With BIAB you can go a little finer so you’ll be safe. Do small amounts at a time.

For what it’s worth though, I ended up writing to morebeer and they refunded the cost of the grain from the order.

Good luck

 

[HopsAreGood]

Use a food processor.
I too BIAB but I have my own mill. Got tired of the crappy crush I would get from the HBS.

I have a small food processor and will probably go that route. Thanks

 

[HopsAreGood]

You'll have a lower OG, but will still have beer. Do you have any extract you could use to boost it up a bit?

No DME on hand. Will just use the food processor as mentioned above.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I had this same thing happen to me from morebeer, very poor crush. I posted about it here and got a how bunch of ppl give me crap about saying it’s a crap crush. Because of that and that I’m stubborn I brewed with it to prove a point. Out of 17lbs of grain I yielded on 1.051. So I wouldn’t brew with unless you can run it through a food processor or blender quick. With BIAB you can go a little finer so you’ll be safe. Do small amounts at a time.

For what it’s worth though, I ended up writing to morebeer and they refunded the cost of the grain from the order.

Good luck

Exactly..I’m not interested in getting 1.05ish from 17 pounds of grain which is exactly the amount I ordered. I have to say I’m definitely surprised by the lack of crush. Everything is however packaged nicely and appears to be good quality.

I won’t be brewing until later this week so I have plenty of time to get it done.

Thanks

 

[Jim R]

This is just a good excuse to buy a grain mill and have more fun. The thing will last you a lifetime. I would hate to have to deal with 17 lbs of grains in a food processor that wasn't made for achieving a good crush.

 

[brew703]

Get a mill.
Online retailers as well as most HBS set their gap and that's what they use for all orders. My HBS looked at me like I was asking for free stuff when I wanted a tighter crush. That led to the cereal crusher.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Get a mill.
Online retailers as well as most HBS set their gap and that's what they use for all orders. My HBS looked at me like I was asking for free stuff when I wanted a tighter crush. That led to the cereal crusher.

I agree with everyone suggesting to get a mill, but the thing is my LHBS does a great job crushing the grains for BIAB. I’ve purchased my grains from them for pretty much every batch I’ve done over the last few years. Unfortunately this virus has gotten in the way and I decided to try out morebeer. Will definitely be going back to @Bobby_M for all future purchases.

 

[day_trippr]

If he'll have you back....

Cheers!

 

[HopsAreGood]

If he'll have you back....

Cheers!

Haha. I know. I feel like I’ve committed a sin. Not even joking.

 

[fendersrule]

That's a 60% efficiency crush at best. Time for a mill, which is a MUST with BIAB. Cereal Killer is a damn good mill for the money.

No need to crush your grains at the local HBS store, even if they do provide a good crush for BIAB, you'll be able to provide a better one. A BIAB crush is NOT the same as a normal sparge crush. If I was a 3V brewer and my local HBS store had the mill setting for a great BIAB setting, I'd have stuck sparges...

No such thing as a crush that works for both.

 

[Bobby_M]

Buy your grain from me next time. When you tell me you want a fine BIAB crush, you get it for real.

 

[doug293cz]

If you don't want to try to run all the grain thru a food processor, you can just extend your mash time, which will help with conversion efficiency (since large grits convert slower than smaller grits.) You could go as long as 120 minutes if needed. You can monitor your conversion efficiency using the method here.

If your BIAB vessel doesn't hold temp well during the mash, you can hold back some of your strike water, heat it to boiling, and add it after 60 minutes to bring the temp back up. Brewing software that can calculate boiling water additions required for step mashes can help you figure out how much boiling water will be required. Use the temp that your mash falls to as the first mash step temp in the multi-infusion calculator, and your original mash temp as the second step temp.

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

You could go as long as 120 minutes if needed.

i've heard/read beta-amylase denatures a lot quicker then that, so it might not be as fermentable a wort?

 

[fendersrule]

I mash for 90 minutes with a super fine crush. I can easily get 1.007 FG if I wanted to, so I don't believe that longer mashes create less ferment-able wort.

 

[Dgallo]

I mash for 90 minutes with a super fine crush. I can easily get 1.007 FG if I wanted to, so I don't believe that longer mashes create less ferment-able wort.

You’re correct. Longer mashes create a more fermentable wort because beta amylase can convert more simple sugars over time

 

[bracconiere]

I mash for 90 minutes with a super fine crush. I can easily get 1.007 FG if I wanted to, so I don't believe that longer mashes create less ferment-able wort.

but the beta-amylase is only working for 30-40 minutes, then the hardier alpha is working.....and with a fine crush unlick the piss poor one the OP has.....it'd more access to the starch....??? i think? for that 30-40 minutes at that temp....crushing fine wasn't the question....it was course....

 

[Dgallo]

but the beta-amylase is only working for 30-40 minutes, then the hardier alpha is working.....and with a fine crush unlick the piss poor one the OP has.....it'd more access to the starch....??? i think? for that 30-40 minutes at that temp....crushing fine wasn't the question....it was course....

If you’re interested.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Mash_Time_Dependency_of_Wort_Fermentability

 

[bracconiere]

If you’re interested.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Mash_Time_Dependency_of_Wort_Fermentability

i am interested but i've read at 150f, beta denatures pretty quick, and if the OP's crush is acurate it would take longer to even get the inside of the kernels wet enough for beta to be mobile....


edit maybe there would still be beta left in the kernels though...

 

[doug293cz]

i've heard/read beta-amylase denatures a lot quicker then that, so it might not be as fermentable a wort?

There is a persistent myth that alpha amylase does not create fermentable sugar. Alpha cuts glucose chains at random points, and some of those cuts will be near the chain ends and create maltose or glucose. The more time alpha works, the more fermentable sugar it creates. Beta amylase on the other hand creates only maltose, so it is more efficient than alpha for fermentable sugars.

Beta may be gone long before the end of the mash, especially at higher mash temps, but as long as alpha is working, it will be creating fermentable sugars.

I am of the belief that the primary reason that low temperature mashes produce more fermentable wort is that limit dextrinase is active longer (it is less stable than beta amylase.) Limit dextrinase working with the other amylases can break down dextrins into fermentable sugar (alpha and beta alone cannot break down limit dextrin.) Reducing the amount of residual dextrin is the reason for the higher fermentability.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

...

edit maybe there would still be beta left in the kernels though...

The enzymes exist in the outer layer of the kernels. There are little to no enzymes in the endosperm (the bulk of the kernel where the starch resides.)

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

There is a persistent myth that alpha amylase does not create fermentable sugar.

strictly from hear say, i've heard it's random also.....

The enzymes exist in the outer layer of the kernels. There are little to no enzymes in the endosperm (the bulk of the kernel where the starch resides.)

Brew on

with the OP's crush, even alpha would denature at mash temp before the endosperm would have a chance to make it mobile......there's like 50% un crushed grains.....lol

 

[doug293cz]

...

with the OP's crush, even alpha would denature at mash temp before the endosperm would have a chance to make it mobile......there's like 50% un crushed grains.....lol

It's hard to tell if there are a significant number of uncrushed kernels in OP's photos, since the malt is not spread out. But it looks like most kernels have been split into 2-3 pieces. The fact that there is almost no husk shreading makes it look like there are a lot of uncrushed kernels.

Brew on

 

[HopsAreGood]

Wow. Very interesting conversation. I had no idea I’d spark such a back and forth. I’m not sure if this helps but here’s another picture.

 

[bracconiere]

It's hard to tell if there are a significant number of uncrushed kernels in OP's photos, since the malt is not spread out. But it looks like most kernels have been split into 2-3 pieces. The fact that there is almost no husk shreading makes it look like there are a lot of uncrushed kernels.

Brew on

lol, take a look at the update......i'd say morebeer ran the mill too fast, i've tried running my mill when i first was motorizing it, at high speeds, and that's what i got......

 

[fendersrule]

Yea, that's not a BIAB crush!

 

[bracconiere]

Yea, that's not a BIAB crush!

lol, that's what a fat man jumping on the bag before shipping looks like....

 

[IslandLizard]

Yea, that's not a BIAB crush!

If there are any uncrushed, whole kernels, that's not a BIAB crush by any measure!