Graham's English Cider

[coravetz]

First, Freezeblade, thanks for the recipe! A quick question for those that have made the recipe. But, first some background. for what I did for my batch.

Batch was started in July 2015 and just started drinking it over Thanksgiving and the Christmas break. It was made with the Whole Foods North Coast Organic Apple Juice coming from Sonoma, Co. and I followed the instructions and recommendations with the exception of using WLP001 vs Safale 04 yeast. It fermented right to a FG of 1.000 and was in primary for 1 month, secondary for 2 months. After that it went into a keg to cold cold crash until right before Thanksgiving weekend. But checking it a few weeks before bottling I still couldn't get it clear enough for my tastes so I filtered it through a 5 micron, then 1 micron. But there was still enough haze that I added a few oz of Biofine to the keg the following week to help it along. Now that it's been about 5 months and I've put it into bottles, it's finally super clear with only a small amount of gunk in the bottom of each bottle.

The taste is dry and I personally like it a lot. The wife also likes it quite a bit and likes it way more than the commercial ones, especially the sweet ciders that are on sale here and mostly found in the U.S. Unfortunately, many of the other women that have tried it don't like the taste and says it's missing some of that apple taste and they would like it a bit sweeter.

So my questions to people that have made this:
1. Do you think the Biofine or filtering stripped out some of the favors and your batches have a pronounced apple favor?
2. Have any of you back sweetened with just some additional apple juice to add that apple and a bit of sweet favor back after fermentation?

Much appreciated!

 

[jazzmikey]

Sorry -- COMPLETE beginner. Here is a picture of a bottle that had soda in it, I noticed it had a cool recap thingy so I'm thinking of fermenting cider in the bottle and then drinking it out of the same bottle. Is that the best way? Other suggestions?

 

[coravetz]

Interesting idea for a one stop bottle for everything, but, I wouldn't do that. You're going to have lots of sediment, yeast, etc in the bottom and that's going to make it even harder to clean after aging the cider for 5-6 mo. I'd suggest you ferment in something you can clean and sanitize really well and use these bottles for the great looking cider to bottle condition in afterwards. Also, I can't tell from the picture how big the bottle is nor did you mention the size of batch you wanted to do, but even if it's a 750ml - 1L size and you're doing 5 gallons of cider, you're still talking quite a few bottles to have fermenting at any one time.

 

[RationalRev]

Does this recipe call for concentrate or fresh squeezed?

 

[Mismost]

Bottled my first batch yesterday...started 7 Nov 2015. Two gallons still in gallon jugs and the rest in PET bottles with carbonation drops. Sampled the odd half bottle left over. Since this is my first batch of cider, I don't even have a good idea of what is supposed to taste like, but I liked it...even warm and flat.

Have another 5 batch I started on top of the old lees and racked it to the secondary yesterday. Think I want to back-sweeten and carb that whole batch in the bottles.

Side note...first time I've used those brown PET bottles with the screw on caps. Almost too easy....I may buy some more of those things!

 

[coravetz]

Does this recipe call for concentrate or fresh squeezed?

I'd think either would work since many of the juices I've seen at the store are from concentrate already. The only thing I'd check is the added sugar in the can of concentrate and sweetness before starting. I think Graham's Cider is suppose to be dry not your typical sweet US cider we normally see here.

 

[coravetz]

Bottled my first batch yesterday...started 7 Nov 2015. Two gallons still in gallon jugs and the rest in PET bottles with carbonation drops. Sampled the odd half bottle left over. Since this is my first batch of cider, I don't even have a good idea of what is supposed to taste like, but I liked it...even warm and flat.

Have another 5 batch I started on top of the old lees and racked it to the secondary yesterday. Think I want to back-sweeten and carb that whole batch in the bottles.

Side note...first time I've used those brown PET bottles with the screw on caps. Almost too easy....I may buy some more of those things!

Mine turned out like a sweet champagne, or a very dry cider. If you like it, duplicate it...if not, start your modifications and let us know what you did and what others say :rockin:

 

[dk4dk4]

I made this cider and I finished with a post-ferment pH of 2.6 which is too sharp imho. Is there a way to adjust the pH up to 3.4 - 3.7 range where hard ciders should sit?

I used s04 yeast, og 1.06 finished at 0.99 with a pH at 2.6

 

[Mismost]

Bottled my first batch yesterday...started 7 Nov 2015. Two gallons still in gallon jugs and the rest in PET bottles with carbonation drops. Sampled the odd half bottle left over. Since this is my first batch of cider, I don't even have a good idea of what is supposed to taste like, but I liked it...even warm and flat.

Have another 5 batch I started on top of the old lees and racked it to the secondary yesterday. Think I want to back-sweeten and carb that whole batch in the bottles.

Side note...first time I've used those brown PET bottles with the screw on caps. Almost too easy....I may buy some more of those things!

Never drank cider before...didn't even know if I would like this stuff. I can't keep my hands off it...I keep testing the carbonation, at least that's my excuse. I was thinking cider would be more of a winter time drink. Now I'm thinking this stuff is gonna be great on a hot day. Very refreshing.

 

[RationalRev]

Just made a batch of this last week using Nottingham and it is the first ever batch that I needed a blowoff tube for! Crazy fermentation! went from 1.052 to 1.020 in 2 days.

Eric

Started this last night, and I have yet to see any yeast movement.

 

[Toppers15]

Folks - going to try my hand at cider. Can someone let me know if a blowoff tube is needed for a 6 gallon carboy? Thanks!

 

[RationalRev]

Folks - going to try my hand at cider. Can someone let me know if a blowoff tube is needed for a 6 gallon carboy? Thanks!

A blowoff tube is always the best solution. My Nottingham Ale yeast barely foamed, so as with any yeast, anything can happen.

 

[Toppers15]

Thanks for all the comments on this thread - I feel like I've read through most of it. BUT - I like validation. Can someone comment if what I have read/understood to be correct.

1) Notty Yeast - hydrate?
2) Good Choice? It was on sale. Oasis Apple Juice - http://www.oasis.ca/en/products/oasis/#apple-not-from-concentrate
3) Only have a 5 Gal Carboy available for this so going to make 4.5 Gallons. Is that enough head room? Use air-lock or blowoff? (Vodka or star-san mix?)
4) Ferment in low 60's.
5) Yeast nutrient - 1 tsp per gallon?

HELP! Thanks.

 

[Toppers15]

Thanks for all the comments on this thread - I feel like I've read through most of it. BUT - I like validation. Can someone comment if what I have read/understood to be correct.

1) Notty Yeast - hydrate?
2) Good Choice? It was on sale. Oasis Apple Juice - http://www.oasis.ca/en/products/oasis/#apple-not-from-concentrate
3) Only have a 5 Gal Carboy available for this so going to make 4.5 Gallons. Is that enough head room? Use air-lock or blowoff? (Vodka or star-san mix?)
4) Ferment in low 60's.
5) Yeast nutrient - 1 tsp per gallon?

HELP! Thanks.

Shameful bump - newb to the whole brewing community and want to make sure evertthing looks A-O-K. Thanks!

 

[Newsman]

New to this thread... been making sweet ciders, mostly, and kegging, so I don't have to worry about bottle bombs. That being said, this intrigues me as I like the taste of Woodchuck. Could I use regular iced tea bags? I bought some that make a gallon of iced tea. This is Lipton Iced Tea teabags, IIRC. I only read the first couple pages and skipped to the end, so apologies if this has been asked and answered already.

 

[JonGoku]

Shameful bump - newb to the whole brewing community and want to make sure evertthing looks A-O-K. Thanks!

Other than you being stressed, your plan looks fine. The hard part is the wait, so hurry up and git'r'dun.

If you are concerned about the blow-off vs airlock, go with the blow-off as it performs the same function, just has a greater capacity to handle a beefy fermentation if that's what you end up with. After initial fermentation has occurred you can stick with the blow-off or switch to the less cumbersome airlock. The content of the blow-off jar or air-lock isn't a big deal either. Personally I'd go with star-san as I'd hate to waste a good shot of vodka.

Recap:
1) no need
2) Looks good, you should be fine
3) 4.5 gallon fill in a 5 gallon carboy with a blow off should be good. Use star-san (standard dilution mix used for sanitation)
4) yes
5) sounds standard and you should be perfectly fine (contact the vendor or store you purchased the particular yeast nutrient from if you are truly concernedly, otherwise drink above saved shot of vodka and relax)

 

[Hardtime]

Shameful bump - newb to the whole brewing community and want to make sure evertthing looks A-O-K. Thanks!

Yes, you will be perfectly successful. The juice looks fine (no added preservatives), rehydrating the yeast is a good idea when working with carboys, the nutrient amount is correct, and you should be fine with an airlock especially fermenting in the low 60s. Mine fermented with Nottingham at 60* to 62* and I never had more than a quarter inch of foam at the surface. I would only suggest adding a bit more juice for less headspace … about halfway up the shoulder of the carboy, then top it up right into the neck with more juice after you transfer to a secondary.

 

[jeffjm]

I started this in mid July with generic juice, lime, tea, S04, and yeast nutrient. Was hoping it would be ready for a friends wedding in November. Kegged after 3 months. It was still pretty sour when the wedding came around, so I sweetened with a few containers of frozen concentrate. It was ok, but my pumpkin ale went over much better.

There was a couple of gallons left, so I just put it in my kegerator to age. After 7 months, it has just now mellowed into a fantastic cider. Patience pays off on this one. I've never had a commercial cider this dry and smooth.

99 km zzc

This is crystal clear for me after 4 weeks in the primary. Should I bother with a secondary?

Did anyone add apple juice concentrate? And what quantity?

 

[jeffjm]

I started this in mid July with kkkgenerikmoc juice, lime, tea, S04, and yeast nutrient. Was hoping it wouldh oo j kind jj bex oj for a friends wedding in November. Zd after 3 months. It was still pretty sour when the wedding came around, so I vh with a few containers of frozen concentrate. It was ok, but my pumpkin ale went over much better.

There was a couple of gallons left, so DC hhhcex99 I just put it in my kegerator to age. After 7 months, it has just now mellowed into a fantastic cider. Patience pays off on this one. I've never had a commercial cider this dry and smooth.

99 km zzc

This is crystal clear for me after 4 weeks in the primary. Should I bother with a secondary?

Did anyone add apple juice concentrate? And what quantity?

 

[Mismost]

I finished my first batch a few months ago. Gave a few bottles to some gin-u-wine English friends.....they said it was spot on for a dry English cider! Well, Graham said it was!

I have kinda learned to like it...it crisp and tart. I started a second batch right on top on the lees and it finished in a similar fashion. It's just been sitting in the carboy and taking up space. Frankly, I didn't want another five gallons of the same stuff. I stabilized and sweetened it FAJC ....then added some brown sugar. Maybe too sweet for you hard core cider guys.....but, man is it good to my taste and still a little tart. I may make this again!

BTW...my English friends tasted it and said this in American style cider...the preferred the dry. I just like that you tweak on it.

 

[HopWolf]

Cider newb here and here's my story, needed a batch of cider for my daughters graduation in May so that gives be about two months and I've done this already

Five gallon carboy
4.75 gallons of organic Apple Juice SG of 1.045
1 1/2 lbs organic cane sugar dissolved in heated cider and mixed
1 lb of honey dissolved in heated cider
4 tsp of nutrients
OG of about 1.063
1 packet of Nottingham pitched on 2/6 at 66F and fermentation started that day and the airlock was a machine gun, the aroma was better than expected
Sunday the 13th the airlock activity was next to nothing so I took a reading of 0.999 and I've parked it in a fridge to crash it at 36F
Sampling tastes pretty good but I've never drank hard cider so I've no clue if this is going to be any good for a cider drinker that like the Stella brand.
I'm going to bottle in about a week and would rather not pasteurize if I don't have to but will if needed.
Originally I was going to use about 4oz of corn sugar for priming but after reading this thread I'm considering using a can of concentrate for additional apple flavor but I don't want it to get to sweet
I'm probably going to pasteurize as it'll not be kept chilled.

Thoughts or ideas?

Thanks

 

[RobertMT]

I use FAJC all the time for priming. Read the label on can, as brands vary, as to amount of sugar. Look at carbs, 28 grams to 1 oz sugar, mine has 170 grams of carbs to whole can or about 6 ozs sugar, so I would prime with 2/3 can (8 fl oz) instead of 4 oz sugar.

From experience and plugging your info into priming calc. you only need 3 oz of sugar, you're better off with only 1/2 can FAJC and not be overcarbed. Use PET soda bottle as test and do squeeze test, when it starts to gets hard, you have enough carb.

 

[Diamonddave74]

Just brewed...I mean made this with costco branded apple juice and cider house select yeast. Og came in at 1.05 and a week later I'm at 1. Taste isn't that bad honestly. Cloudy yes and a bit of fiz so this has a ways to go. Hopefully it will be good enough in 3 months for a family trip to the beach.

 

[Toppers15]

Folks - just a comment and a question. This stuff is great still after 3ish months in primary & secondary. I added 1 can of apple juice concentrate to carb in bottles and by my calculations I'll have roughly 2.4-2.5 vol. I've read lots about pasteurizing while in the bottle after the carbing is done (3-4 weeks) but why is this any different than beer? I only put enough sugar in to reach my desired card levels.

Cheers,

 

[yogi223]

I started a 6 gallon batch of this today. I used S-04, 6 tsp nutrients, 5 bags of tea. I only added 5 gallons of Mott apple juice today and I plan on adding the other gallon in 2-3 days.

I will return in August with a progress report.

 

[RationalRev]

Finally kegged mine. Backsweetend with 2 pounds of sugar, as this ended completely fermented out the sugars and was dry and sour. Cold crashed and served. Delicious.

 

[RationalRev]

Folks - just a comment and a question. This stuff is great still after 3ish months in primary & secondary. I added 1 can of apple juice concentrate to carb in bottles and by my calculations I'll have roughly 2.4-2.5 vol. I've read lots about pasteurizing while in the bottle after the carbing is done (3-4 weeks) but why is this any different than beer? I only put enough sugar in to reach my desired card levels.

Cheers,

I am given to understand that after a nice long measured ferment, you can verify that all the sugars are gone, you can control the input of carbonation sugars, and there's no need to pasteurize.

For those like me who found this cider to be too dry and sour, getting a sweeter final product means:

• Adding a non-fermentable sugar,

• Adding a fermentable sugar but cold-crashing/pasteurizing, (I just sweetened it in the keg and added to kegerator).

• Or doing a short ferment and cold-crashing/pasteurizing to stop fermentation.

 

[Diamonddave74]

Just bottled mine as is (no sweetener) my brother spent time in England and misses their cider. Says the stuff in the US is way too sweet for his liking. This may do it cause it's dry but has a good Apple flavor

 

[fosaisu]

Kegged after 25 days in primary fermenter (Nottingham yeast fermented at 64° F for 7 days then gradual ramp up to 70° F, then cold-crashed for 5 days). Crystal clear and tastes fantastic, no sulpher or other off-flavors at all. Currently carbing up to 3 vols. I backsweetened with a 16oz can of concentrate, though it hardly needs it.

Will be interesting to see if the taste changes or improves over the coming months sitting in the keg (if it lasts that long), but it tastes wonderful as-is so to anyone put off by the 6-month aging time recommended in the original recipe, if you control your fermentation temps appropriately and cold crash it tastes (and looks) great after only a few weeks! [This timeline applies only to "clear" juice like Motts or Tree Top as recommended by the OB -- the one time I cidered with fancier unfiltered juice, it took months to clear and didn't taste appreciably better at the end of it, so I'm sticking with the cheap stuff from here on out]

Wanted to follow up on this. Last fall I did a double batch, half went into the kegerator backsweetened with one can concentrate after 25 days in the fermenter. Second was cellared in a covered carboy for 7 months, then backsweetened with one can concentrate and into the kegerator.

There's definitely a taste difference. The cellared version is more smooth/mellow (though I don't notice more "apple" character as some have described). With that, while I stand by my assessment that you can get very good cider in a short time-frame, I'll probably use the 6-month cellaring period in the future since it seems to produce a superior product.

 

[oscarjets]

I just moved this from primary to secondary, it smelled great. It started at 1.050 and was down to 1.000 on the nose. I wasn't sure about adding more juice as I wanted it dry. There was quite a bit of head space so I added another gallon. That brought it back up to 1.008. Do you think it will come back down? I plan on leaving it for another month or two in the secondary. I used S04 as my yeast.