Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[762frmafr]

Oh yeh.... in secondary, I plan to throw in 4 ounces of cacao nibs for about 2 weeks.

 

[zonkman]

Didn't know what to expect, but any expectations I had have been well exceeded. Used Whole Foods juice, Citra and US-05. The balance - sweet, sour, bitter, hoppy - is spot on. Could have easily been fooled into believing this to be a lambic. Cotton candy finish. Hundred miles superior to any cider/apfelwein I've done before. Looking forward to many more versions.

 

[Gilbert Spinning Horse]

Hi all. Just signed up here though I've been lurking for a while now. I thought it fitting that my first post should be to thank Brandon for this superb recipe. I followed the original fairly closely though I used Dark Crystal (435) as I had that sitting around. The people I have shared it with have been blown away by it, doubly so as cider is not something that is produced or drunk here in Brazil. My Graff has been in the bottles for about 8 weeks now and it is absolutely wonderful. I managed to get another brewed up over the weekend, this time using 200g of Carapils and 500g of Crystal 150 to up the malt profile and head retention somewhat.
So cheers Brando, top work mate!

 

[photobrewmufc]

What's the average ABV for this style? I'm brewing one with some co-workers, and we're looking for something easy drinking for the summer. I've seen it clock in around 7%, shooting for 5.5% or 6%.

Cheers.

 

[Hankhill11]

What do you think the longest this can sit on the lees before picking up off flavors? My 2nd batch has been in the same secondary carboy since 5/1 due to a combination of being lazy and not having the time to bottle.

 

[NavinRJohnson48]

Add another 5gal to the count

3.5lbs Vienna
8oz Crystal 60
3oz flaked wheat
1/2oz Cascade
4 gallons Western Family "fresh pressed" apple cider
Nottingham at 68°F

I hope it drinks as good as it smells

 

[Dangeruss]

I left my keg at my friends house that I made over a year ago. I added anise,cloves,allspice,fennel tincture in vodka then I kegged. I am enjoying this and the spice is still pronounce and I put brown sugar in it to put it at 7.1% ABV but it does not taste like it but after 2 I am feeling good. cheers

 

[Brewboz]

Just did the deed. its been in the primary for 4 days used about the same recipe. Thanks man I'm super stoked to keg it up and have a glass

 

[SanPancho]

Didn't know what to expect, but any expectations I had have been well exceeded. Used Whole Foods juice, Citra and US-05. The balance - sweet, sour, bitter, hoppy - is spot on. Could have easily been fooled into believing this to be a lambic. Cotton candy finish. Hundred miles superior to any cider/apfelwein I've done before. Looking forward to many more versions.

So the original recipe, but swapping citra hops and us05 into the mix?

 

[zonkman]

So the original recipe, but swapping citra hops and us05 into the mix?

Yup. Very keen to try other combinations too. In fact, I think it could be interesting to make a little Graf on the side every time I brew.

 

[SanPancho]

Yeah, ive usually got half a gallon left in kettle. Only issue is filtering the trub, but that isnt too bad. Although i guess i could build a biggr mash and just pull from there, although it would still need a boil with some hops.

 

[Brewboz]

Has anyone tried using gelitan on graff before kegging or bottling with good results? Or should i not do that?

 

[SanPancho]

Whats the typical procedure for nutrients? Standard dose? Double?

All in the kettle? Half kettle and half in fermenter?

At about 7 days in i feel like it stalled out on me. I added some more nutrients and it picked up again, so bumping to 72f for 48 hours to finish. Fresh us05 and us04. Was surprised it took that long to begin with, and then the stall just keeps it dragging out.

 

[Brewboz]

I made this about 3 weeks ago its in the keg and is kinda gross.. I followed the recipe to a tee.. I did use yeast nutrient and energizer in the beer part while boiling I used enough for 5 gallons. I went with Nottingham and think 05 would have been better. I am pretty sure 100% sure it would have been better using only apple juice and leave the beer part out.. Still using the ale yeast. It is drinkable but its very tart and dry still has a young cider taste. I mean on a scale of 1-10 is give it a 3. I seen on here a lot of other people getting the same results on here.. Ir Mabry brew 4 gallons of beer and only use 1 gallon apple juice/cider?

 

[Brewboz]

So here's the deal my graff. Its pretty bad tasting and I have 5 gallons of it.. So I want to make it more drinkable. It is tart sour and dry. Question is should I dry hop it or back sweeten it? It is in the keg and carbonated I have drank some of it is say mabey a 12 packish.. And if I back sweeten how much uhh apple juice or hops should I use? I did rack it into a secondary after one week and its been in a keg for a week so does it need to be "stabilized" how can I save it. Its not terrible but its nothing I really enjoy as it is..

 

[BigBlueDog]

So here's the deal my graff. Its pretty bad tasting and I have 5 gallons of it.. So I want to make it more drinkable. It is tart sour and dry. Question is should I dry hop it or back sweeten it? It is in the keg and carbonated I have drank some of it is say mabey a 12 packish.. And if I back sweeten how much uhh apple juice or hops should I use? I did rack it into a secondary after one week and its been in a keg for a week so does it need to be "stabilized" how can I save it. Its not terrible but its nothing I really enjoy as it is..

What was your FG? If you generally followed the original recipe (steeping at > 155F and using DME), then Nottingham/US-05 wouldn't be expected to ferment dry (i.e., < 0.996), producing a tart/dry character. Sour could be a different problem altogether. Individual palates vary though, so you may simply prefer more residual sweetness. Dry hopping isn't likely to help accentuate the sweetness, so you could consider back sweetening with a simple syrup solution or thawed apple juice concentrate.

If you don't know the current SG of what's in the keg and/or don't want to bother with any math, you could just add a small amount apple juice concentrate, mix it in, and sample it. Repeat until the sweetness is to your liking (go slow, so as not to over shoot the desired finish). Note that some who back sweeten cider with apple juice report that it's noticeable at first and tends to blend in after a few weeks. Since you're in a keg and keeping it cold, there's no need to stabilize with potassium sorbate or the like, which is intended to cut down yeast reproduction to avoid re-fermentation when bottling.

 

[Roland_deschain]

Just as an FYI, I had brewed another batch of graff last September, I still have 2 gallons or so in a keg and I tasted it yesterday. It has aged quite well! Still very drinkable and a nice apple aroma.

 

[Brewboz]

What was your FG? If you generally followed the original recipe (steeping at > 155F and using DME), then Nottingham/US-05 wouldn't be expected to ferment dry (i.e., < 0.996), producing a tart/dry character. Sour could be a different problem altogether. Individual palates vary though, so you may simply prefer more residual sweetness. Dry hopping isn't likely to help accentuate the sweetness, so you could consider back sweetening with a simple syrup solution or thawed apple juice concentrate.

If you don't know the current SG of what's in the keg and/or don't want to bother with any math, you could just add a small amount apple juice concentrate, mix it in, and sample it. Repeat until the sweetness is to your liking (go slow, so as not to over shoot the desired finish). Note that some who back sweeten cider with apple juice report that it's noticeable at first and tends to blend in after a few weeks. Since you're in a keg and keeping it cold, there's no need to stabilize with potassium sorbate or the like, which is intended to cut down yeast reproduction to avoid re-fermentation when bottling.

I broke my hydrometer while brewing the beer part. But my final gravity was about 1.003 and yeah I figured I'd hope it would age better. I did use crystal 60 and store bought apple juice. I may make it again someday and use more beer but keep the hop amount the same. I should have bottled some of it to try it in some months. I kinda just want to get it drank and so I can have my keg back

 

[Scientific hippie]

I hope this question hasn't been posed before. I was looking at this thread, and while shopping I noticed Whole Foods has 1 gallon jugs of organic apple juice and smaller ones of Gravenstein and HoneyCrisp juice. Trader Joe's has 1 gallon jugs of unfiltered juice. Which do you think would be good for Graf? I am slowly moving my fermentation interests from kombucha to wine to cider. Is straight beer far behind?

 

[BlongMaster5000Thousand]

I hope this question hasn't been posed before. I was looking at this thread, and while shopping I noticed Whole Foods has 1 gallon jugs of organic apple juice and smaller ones of Gravenstein and HoneyCrisp juice. Trader Joe's has 1 gallon jugs of unfiltered juice. Which do you think would be good for Graf? I am slowly moving my fermentation interests from kombucha to wine to cider. Is straight beer far behind?

Having admittedly only made one batch of graf, but several other ciders, I don't think you could go wrong with any of the choices. Generally a blend of tart and sweet works well but the point of the malts and hops in this graf is to cover and young flavors and sub-par juice, so given that all your choices are high above TreeTop, you'll be fine, so long as none have preservatives. I would go with 2 or 3 of the TJs or WF's 1 gallon jugs as a base, and a couple of Gravenstein and HoneyCrisp to bring to 4 gallons total to round flavors.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[Scientific hippie]

Blong master, that sounds like a great idea! My husband likes cider, and I wanted to make him some (as I said above, my gateway drug was kombucha, and now I am escalating), but he keeps saying the season is almost over and he would prefer wine. But I am curious about graf. I may do a smaller recipe to start with, though eventually I will need a big carboy and now is as good as anytime. I will need to download Beer Brewing for Dummies so I know what to do.

 

[Brewboz]

Sooo what i said before isn't completely true. After letting the head sit in the keg for several weeks its getting better. I imagine if I would have aged it like a cider and not a beer it would have turned out fair.

 

[sixorfour]

I hope this question hasn't been posed before. I was looking at this thread, and while shopping I noticed Whole Foods has 1 gallon jugs of organic apple juice and smaller ones of Gravenstein and HoneyCrisp juice. Trader Joe's has 1 gallon jugs of unfiltered juice. Which do you think would be good for Graf? I am slowly moving my fermentation interests from kombucha to wine to cider. Is straight beer far behind?

I just brewed a batch of this with 4 gallons of Solana Gold Organic Gravenstein and a half gallon of fresh pressed pumpkin juice. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[Scientific hippie]

I saw your post. I'm very curious about how it comes out. I made my first batch of Graf today; I used one gallon of the organic juice from Whole Foods. I had the water ready to hydrate the yeast, but absent-mindedly just poured the packet into the jug. I am seeing bubbles, so I think it's OK. What are people's thoughts about priming sugar when bottling? Is that done with Graf?

 

[sixorfour]

In my experience rehydrating the yeast isn't necessary, although I've only brewed beer before.

I read in this thread somewhere that people are indeed carbing this similar to beer (bottle priming sugars).

 

[Scientific hippie]

Yeah, it seems fine today, bubbling away.

 

[Scientific hippie]

OK, I put this gallon of Graf together ten days ago. It has been in my basement (around 76-77 degrees F). I haven't seen it bubble in days; is it still too soon to try it? Should I wait the extra few days, or might the slightly high ambient temp have made it ready sooner?

 

[RPh_Guy]

OK, I put this gallon of Graff together ten days ago. It has been in my basement (around 76-77 degrees F). I haven't seen it bubble in days; is it still too soon to try it? Should I wait the extra few days, or might the slightly high ambient temp have made it ready sooner?

That's pretty warm. Probably finished, especially if you used a whole yeast packet.

I would definitely think about using some kind of temperature control in the future.

Swamp cooler = pan, water, t-shirt. Put the fermenter in the pan with water. Cover the fermenter with a t-shirt with the bottom of it in the water, so water wicks up the shirt and evaporates, cooling the fermenter.

I use an old fridge with a temp controller for tight control.

 

[Scientific hippie]

We are planning on getting a new refrigerator; we will put the old one in the basement and crank it up to 55 degrees. I hope that will solve the problem.

 

[Scientific hippie]

OK, I just filled seven swing top bottles. I tasted it; as expected, it was moderately bitter. Now I'll wait another two weeks.