Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[boswell]

If you're going to try this, I'd suggest a 1 gallon batch to start. After reading this whole thread, I had a vastly different idea what this would taste like.

 

[Chronobotanist]

Howdy!

I've made a couple batches of Graff now and I was thinking of tinkering with some MLF fermentation to lower some of the tartness and round out the taste a little. I'm thinking this must be limited to force carbing since you'd have to add sulfites to kill of the bugs before carbonation, although maybe if you were careful you could play with a sulfite level that yeast can handle but not the bacteria. I haven't read through the whole thread; has anyone tried this out yet?

Chronobotanist

 

[tahamsh]

Just brewed a batch tonight and can't wait to try it. Hopefully it will be ready by New Years Eve!

Starting gravity measured 1.066

 

[BigFloyd]

I had kegged a batch of this a few weeks ago (fermented on Notty). Since I already had some in bottles from a prior batch, I decided to play around with back-sweetening and spicing it a bit for the Christmas season.

First, I broke apart and soaked one large cinnamon stick and about 20 allspice berries in a few ounces of cheap vodka a couple of days. After removing the solid bits, I combined it with 1.5tsp K-sorbate (to inhibit yeast activity because I like to bottle off the kegs to share) and a can of frozen concentrated apple juice. It was very milky-looking. After depressurizing the keg, I poured the whole thing into about 4.5 gallons of Graff and sealed it back up.

A few hours later, I tried the first sample. Nice. It gave the Graff a better hint of apple flavor. The spices were present but subtle and in no way dominating. It also stayed decently clear in spite of the milky addition. I may play around with different spice combos and amounts in the future, but I'll certainly do this again.

 

[FuzzBeckersHB]

I had kegged a batch of this a few weeks ago (fermented on Notty). Since I already had some in bottles from a prior batch, I decided to play around with back-sweetening and spicing it a bit for the Christmas season.

First, I broke apart and soaked one large cinnamon stick and about 20 allspice berries in a few ounces of cheap vodka a couple of days. After removing the solid bits, I combined it with 1.5tsp K-sorbate (to inhibit yeast activity because I like to bottle off the kegs to share) and a can of frozen concentrated apple juice. It was very milky-looking. After depressurizing the keg, I poured the whole thing into about 4.5 gallons of Graff and sealed it back up.

A few hours later, I tried the first sample. Nice. It gave the Graff a better hint of apple flavor. The spices were present but subtle and in no way dominating. It also stayed decently clear in spite of the milky addition. I may play around with different spice combos and amounts in the future, but I'll certainly do this again.

Thanks for the post, sounds awesome...

 

[MikePote]

I made this with cheap store brand juice, crystal 120, and .5 fuggles. I just cracked open my first after one week in the bottle. Great twist on boring cider. Not too sweet, slightly malty, I cant directly taste the hops but I think that's a good thing. Thanks for the recipe and I will definitely be making this again!

 

[TheToE]

Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?

 

[KJB5200]

Hey guys, I attempted a batch of this recently but it's become my red-headed step child...brewed it on a day that I was also doing two other batches back-to-back and sure enough, my lack of attention lead to putting two pounds of Crystal 60 into a 3.5gal recipe! Now this stuff tastes like nothing but acrid/burnt caramel with barely any bitterness and certainly no apple aroma/flavor. Here's some more info to give you an idea what I did:

2lb Rahr 2-row
2lb Munton's Crystal 60L
Made mini-mash of this with resulting in 2.2gal wort (1.036)
Boiled down to 1.3gal (1.058) with 0.5oz Tettnanger (6.1%AA) added for 60min
Chilled down to 70ºF
Added 2.0gal home pressed Cider (1.048)
Combined wort & cider for 3.3gal (1.050)

Fermentation was going slowly so I added some Fermaid-O and 0.3lb DME to help out the yeast, and body was lacking so added 0.3lb organic raisins (chopped up). Didn't take a reading but my estimation is this addition bumped up the OG another 6-8points.

That was three days ago and fermentation has settled down again - this morning I took a small sample and it tastes utterly awful. Easily the worst thing I've ever tasted out of a carboy...Now I'm considering added 1.5gal apple juice to revitalize the apple character and try to blend/dilute out that horrid burnt caramel flavor. Any thoughts on how well this will work? Is there a better way to balance out way too much Crystal 60?

 

[insanim8er]

Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?

Next time try to find juice with out ascorbic acid in it. I haven't had this issue, because I use Kirkland juice that is 100% apple juice with nothing else added. But I hear it will mellow out with some age.

 

[BigFloyd]

Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?

I haven't seen this problem even though I use juice that has ascorbic acid. What yeast did you use? I've done it on S-04 and Nottingham and fermented starting at 64*F (with a 68*F finish). Both were only tart enough (before any back-sweetening) to have a nice, crisp note at the end, but not sour.

I used for my steeping grains - 4oz of Crystal 120L, 4oz of Crystal 80, 4oz Special-B and 2 oz of Carafoam.

You may want to try Windsor since it has a pretty low attenuation. You do want to keep it below 70*F to avoid esters.

 

[TheToE]

This was organic publix juice and was the only juice I could find that did not have A. Acid listed.

I used Notty yeast. Fermented at 65F in my converted chest freezer.

 

[mattttt25]

Brewed November 13th following the OP's exact recipe. Used Saaz hops. Fermented for about 3 1/2 weeks and bottled on December 6th. I've tasted one every 3-4 days since then.

As of last night (10 days post bottling), very happy with results. My wife drinks beer and commercial ciders like Angry Orchard. She thinks it tastes like beer with apple flavoring, and really likes it. I think it tastes like a malty cider. Either way, I consider it a big success. Smells wonderfully like apple, has some sweetness to it, and a slight tart ending. Feels like a beer in your mouth. Nice color and head. It's still a little young, so I expect it to only get better.

Based on my results and reading damn near every post on this thread, I believe the keys to success are as follows:

- Use good cider/juice. I used Organics brand organic, unfiltered juice. Not from concentrate, no preservatives, no vitamin C. I think this is the most important thing.
- Follow the recipe. Of course, everyone wants to experiment and it's fun to do so. But I read plenty of posts where people changed the recipe and then complained later that it wasn't what they were expecting.

Thank you to the OP for a great recipe!

 

[herc1354]

Followed the original recipe exactly. Had the exact same OG and FG. It's been bottled for about 12 days now. I decided to crack one open and see what it was like. Super, super, sour. Tasted clean enough, but my goodness it is hella sour. I think back sweetening would take care of this, but I am bottling and not kegging and did not want to fool with bottle pasteurizing. Any chance this one will mellow out some with more time bottle conditioning?

Mine too was a bit sour, not sure if this is typical of this Graff or not, really i do not detect any maltyness at all. I don't care for the ciders currently on the market, I find them to be way too sweet, so even with the sourness I like it as do all my friends. Oh and I used white Labs English Cider Yeast, next batch will be fermented with what the OP suggested.

 

[tx-brewer]

Was thinking of brewing up a batch but leaving out the hops and dme. Anyone have any experience with this or guesses how it might turn out

 

[insanim8er]

Was thinking of brewing up a batch but leaving out the hops and dme. Anyone have any experience with this or guesses how it might turn out

I'm guessing it'll turn out to be a slightly darker cider...

 

[BrewerBear]

It will probably turn out alot like Apfelwein, only a little lower abv.

 

[insanim8er]

It will probably turn out alot like Apfelwein, only a little lower abv.

So...... Cider then? Since Apfelwein isn't apfelwein unless it has added sugar to give it a high ABV.

 

[TimmyWit]

Thanks Brandon O for posting this recipe. Mine fermented all the way down to 1.000 but surprisingly has just enough sweetness to balance the tart which I believe was the point. I used a clean Belgian strain; Wyeast 1762. I also chose Hallertauer for my hop. My wife actually put down her glass of wine in favor of this. Super easy brew day as well! Thanks again

 

[SilverZero]

I just found a 22oz bottle of this hiding in the back of my fridge! It's the last of my first batch I brewed in January. It's 11 months old to the day today, and this is the best one of the bunch. That's not to say the rest weren't great, but I feel like this one is smoother than the earlier ones were. Makes me think I should get another batch going soon.

For reference, these are my BeerSmith notes for my 8-gallon batch:
0.8lbs C60
0.1lbs torrified wheat (but if memory serves, I couldn't find TW so I used flaked . . . maybe?)
1.6lbs light DME
1.6lbs amber DME
0.5oz Cascade hops (9.1%)
6.5g Kirkland apple juice
1pkg Nottingham

Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in 1.2 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins. Use grain bag. Sparge with 0.4 gallons 170 degree water (in 2nd pot) and combine wort parts. Add DME and bring to a boil. Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.

Cool wort to 70 degrees. Pour the wort and apple juice into primary and pitch rehydrated yeast.

 

[TheToE]

Okay. So after almost 4 weeks in the bottle I tried another. Much better. Way more mellow. Enjoyable finally!

 

[BurlyGirl]

Mine too was a bit sour, not sure if this is typical of this Graff or not, really i do not detect any maltyness at all. I don't care for the ciders currently on the market, I find them to be way too sweet, so even with the sourness I like it as do all my friends. Oh and I used white Labs English Cider Yeast, next batch will be fermented with what the OP suggested.

I didn't notice either batch being too sour but I used fresh pressed cider for both batches. The first, pear, the second, apple. That may have made a difference.

 

[BurlyGirl]

Loved this recipe. The first batch we brewed stayed 15 or 16 days in the primary (I have to admit, we didn't take very good notes). The second, I racked to a secondary after only 8 days because of a distinct yeast flavor that I didn't care for in the original batch. Just from gravity readings, it made a considerable difference. I can't wait to taste this one after a couple of weeks of bottle conditioning/carbonation!!

In my next batch, I would like to try steeping a mild (maybe slightly spicy) hop for flavor/aroma after the boil. Has anyone tried this and what were the results?

 

[loveofrose]

Making a Graff has been on the list for quite some time. So has making a mead with a bit of caramel malt. I decided to combine the best of both worlds here to make a summer thirst quencher.

Cyser Graff - Day 0
Steeped 2 oz Caramel 20L in 1 liter water at 170 F for 20 minutes. Removed grain bag after draining excess liquid.
Added 500 ml apple cider for extra volume.
Added 6.6 oz Golden Dry Malt Extract, 1/2 cup honey, 1/2 tsp Beer Nutrient.*
Boiled 15 minutes.
Added 0.5 oz Fuggles whole hops for 8 minutes additional boil time.
Cooled in ice bath.
Poured into 1 gallon glass jug.
Added cold apple cider up to 1 gallon.
Pitched 11.5 g of US-05 rehydrated in GoFerm for 15 minutes.
SG 1.074
IBU 10

Also added 1/2 tsp pectinase.

Post Fermentation Plan
Carbonate with 3 ATMs at bottling.

Day 1
Gravity 1.054. I'll update as I can!

Day 3
1.014

Day 4
1.004. Very tasty already. Kind of apple tart with a beer fullness.

 

[drew1d]

My Spanish friends tasted it and called it Pulque. My brother calls it Apple Beer. I also call it delicious.

 

[cjbalough]

I'm planning on starting a batch of this this weekend. Which of these hops would be best? 1/2 oz Cascade-6%, 1/3 oz centennial-9.7%, or 1/2 oz cluster-7%? Also, would harvested wyeast 1056 - american ale - work for this? I'll be using cheap store brand juice.

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[cjbalough]

Went with the cascade... 1 gal juice w/o vitamin c, 3.5 gal. With it.-- 5.5 batch gal total.... Did the Crystal 120 and 2 lbs breis amber DME. Reusing wyeast 1056.

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[jotakah]

had about 3/4gal of extra wort from brewing a Traditional Bock, OG 1.072 that I just poured into a carboy with 3gal organic apple juice and a vial of WLP001

excited to try this

 

[richlong8020]

I don't have temp control yet. How will this ferment being at room temp. I'm in San Diego

 

[Darth_Malt]

Finally going to brew a batch of this up today! My only question is with a 5 Gallon batch in a 6.5 Gallon glass carboy, am I going to be ok with just an airlock or should I put a blowoff hose on for the first few days of fermentation?

 

[cjbalough]

I'm doing 5.5 gal in a 6.5 gal bucket without needing a blowoff. Fermenting in 65-68 degree room since Saturday night.

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