Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[IMNOTL8]

Just kegged this last night. Tasted great going into the fermenter! Tasted it coming out of the fermenter and it was a little tart. ABV was 8.4%... Haven't read through the 243 pages of posts, but... anyone feel the need to back sweeten this?

 

[BurlyGirl]

I think it could stand to have a bit more hops added. We used only .5 oz. since we got our vines from a friend and have no idea what kind they are. Nice body and great flavor. On the dry side.

All in all, it was just what we were looking for (a way to brew our cider like a beer). Will definitely make this one again!!

 

[BurlyGirl]

Haven't read through the 243 pages of posts, but... anyone feel the need to back sweeten this?

If you like it sweeter, I would. I'm a big fan of a good dry cider and this was just about perfect in my opinion.

 

[SvenF]

I was thinking about doing a winter spiced version, backsweetened and with some vanilla and cinnamon soaked in rum. I was talking about this here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/spiced-winter-cider-443814/

Considering my planned outcome I was thinking about not using any hops at all. Can I do that or would you recommend not to?
Also I'm planning on substituting the torrified wheat for cara-pils since I can't find enything other than regular wheat malt here. Would that work?

For what OG are you planning just the 1G Beer batch? I was thinking at about 1.090? I'm asking because I like to use just all grain. As the base I was thinking about using vienna or munich malt insted of just pale malt. What would you say? Also if you use hops, what IBUs are you looking at, just for the beer batch again? Beersmith puts me somewhere in the 40s. Does that sound right?

Sorry if my questions have been answered before, but this is one big a** thread

 

[insanim8er]

I was thinking about not using any hops at all. Can I do that or would you recommend not to?

You can do whatever you want. Don't add them if you don't want to.

Also I'm planning on substituting the torrified wheat for cara-pils since I can't find enything other than regular wheat malt here. Would that work?

Tortified wheat is basically puffed wheat. In this recipe it's for head retention. It's not going to affect the flavor or ABV at all. Use flaked wheat or just leave it out.

what OG are you planning for the 1G Beer batch?

Since you have beer smith, run the numbers. Also look back a few months, or use the search. There are all grain recipes posted.

I was thinking about using vienna or munich malt insted of just pale malt. What would you say?

Do it... Experiment, and see how it comes out. That's what home brewing is all about, man.

Also if you use hops, what IBUs are you looking at, just for the beer batch again? Beersmith puts me somewhere in the 40s. Does that sound right?

40 sounds way too high to me. I'd stay at or under 10 ibu personally.

Sorry if my questions have been answered before, but this is one big a** thread

That's what the search function is for...

 

[IMNOTL8]

View attachment 161747

I think it could stand to have a bit more hops added. We used only .5 oz. since we got our vines from a friend and have no idea what kind they are. Nice body and great flavor. On the dry side.

All in all, it was just what we were looking for (a way to brew our cider like a beer). Will definitely make this one again!!

I used some hops harvested from a friend as well! Mine were Nugget hops. First time using them in something. They smell great! Have to wait and see on the bitterness in the completely finished product with carbonation and a little aging on it. It's definitely not as dry as Ed Wort's Apfelwein!

 

[MikePote]

Advise Please!

Tuesday I will be bottling my first cider and was in search of a different recipe which is how I came upon this. I love malty beers and a malty cider sounded good to me, so I want to make some. My cider going into bottles Tuesday was fermented with s-04 and has a nice 3/4" thick yeast cake on the bottom of my 5 gallon better bottle. If I were to make this graff could I dump it right in the better bottle after I rack off the cider to be bottled? Thanks so much for the insight.

-Mike

 

[kesslerr1]

Ok so I have made this three times now. I used Brandon-O's recipe, I did the gunslinger version, I made my own version with a SMaSH pale ale. All have been less than good. None of mine have had off flavors its just the flavor is not there. I rather just make cider or a beer. The concept was good with this which is why I kept trying different recipes, but in the end I rather make a beer or a cider. Great idea I'm glad people like it, but IMO this stuff sucks... Like I said thats my opinion, best of luck to you that like it.

:cross::hs:nestar::rockin:

 

[insanim8er]

Ok so I have made this three times now. I used Brandon-O's recipe, I did the gunslinger version, I made my own version with a SMaSH pale ale. All have been less than good. None of mine have had off flavors its just the flavor is not there. I rather just make cider or a beer. The concept was good with this which is why I kept trying different recipes, but in the end I rather make a beer or a cider. Great idea I'm glad people like it, but IMO this stuff sucks... Like I said thats my opinion, best of luck to you that like it.

:cross::hs:nestar::rockin:

Too bad it hasn't worked out for you. I never made the original. I just made up my own all grain recipe using MO and lots of crystal malt. I made two batches so far. The first 5 gallons went in record time. It's very apple in flavor with perfect sweetness. Not too dry, not too sweet... just right. You get the essence of beer, but you know you're drinking a cider. It has body and flavor and perfectly balanced.

My girlfriend is obsessed with this stuff (that's why the keg was tapped in record time) saying it's her favorite thing. Keep in mind, this girl drinks wine and beer. Her family is obsessed with wines. She thinks it's better than any of that stuff commercial or otherwise. My second batch is sitting in a wine cooler at 45 degrees waiting for Thanksgiving.

I have made several ciders that were good, but my AG graft beats them all by far. And--the best thing of all--they're ready in a fraction of the time.

 

[JSahrle]

Too bad it hasn't worked out for you. I never made the original. I just made up my own all grain recipe using MO and lots of crystal malt. I made two batches so far...I have made several ciders that were good, but my AG graft beats them all by far. And--the best thing of all--they're ready in a fraction of the time.

Can you share your recipe and process?

 

[jakeasaur]

can you share your recipe and process?

+1

 

[insanim8er]

Can you share your recipe and process?

I posted it before. I originally did it as a pumpkin pie graff, but it was just as great with out the spices, so I just modified it with out the pumpkin related additions.

3lb Maris Otter 2-row
2lb Crystal 80L
1/2lb light brown sugar
1oz Fortified wheat = this can be omitted if you can't find it. It's just to try to retain head.
1oz crystal hops
4 gal kirkland (costco) pure apple juice - stay clear of ascorbic acid (vitamin c)
Water = Enough to yeild 1/1.5 gallons of wort + any boil off

For the yeast, use something that has a low attenuation.

For the mash:

~ 158F for body and sweetness

Boil:

.75 ounce of the hops @ 60 and the other .25 @ 10. This gives me an IBU of 10.6 @ 4.3 % AA - so use whatever, but aim for ~ 10 ibu.

Add brown sugar @ last 15min

 

[BurlyGirl]

Can you share your recipe and process?

I agree! I am still very new to all of this (this was my first brew) and I already want to play with it, but some other versions would help very much! I don't know why, but this particular form of brew is very uncommon... the dominantly cider based beer style brew.

 

[insanim8er]

I agree! I am still very new to all of this (this was my first brew) and I already want to play with it, but some other versions would help very much! I don't know why, but this particular form of brew is very uncommon... the dominantly cider based beer style brew.

That's because it was developed around the made up drink in Stephen king's dark tower series.

http://darktower.wikia.com/wiki/Graf

 

[BrewerBear]

Advise Please!

Tuesday I will be bottling my first cider and was in search of a different recipe which is how I came upon this. I love malty beers and a malty cider sounded good to me, so I want to make some. My cider going into bottles Tuesday was fermented with s-04 and has a nice 3/4" thick yeast cake on the bottom of my 5 gallon better bottle. If I were to make this graff could I dump it right in the better bottle after I rack off the cider to be bottled? Thanks so much for the insight.

-Mike

Yes Mike that would be ok to do.

 

[brewman551]

I haven't read through all of the pages on this thread, but of the 16 or so pages I have read, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I think I will try this for my next brew, hopefully brewing something my wife will like. She loves Woodchuck. One question- anyone tried Brandon O's graff recipe with liquid malt extract? I like Briess Pilsen light malt extract. I'm not opposed to using DME, I've just never used it before. Thoughts?

 

[amcclai7]

gonna try this soon.

 

[insanim8er]

I haven't read through all of the pages on this thread, but of the 16 or so pages I have read, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I think I will try this for my next brew, hopefully brewing something my wife will like. She loves Woodchuck. One question- anyone tried Brandon O's graff recipe with liquid malt extract? I like Briess Pilsen light malt extract. I'm not opposed to using DME, I've just never used it before. Thoughts?

There's no reason you can't use LME

 

[herc1354]

There's no reason you can't use LME

If you do use LME it would be a different quantity, x amount of DME does not equal the same amount of LME, I believe you would require more LME then what is called for in DME.

 

[mrdeshone]

I brewed up a batch Sunday and followed the recipe. Today is Wednesday and I haven't noticed a lot of bubbling in my airlock.

 

[herc1354]

I brewed up a batch Sunday and followed the recipe. Today is Wednesday and I haven't noticed a lot of bubbling in my airlock.

What is the temperature of the fermenter? Is the lid on tight, I have a fermentor that has a leaky lid, I almost never see the blow off tube bubble, its getting replaced.

 

[mrdeshone]

What is the temperature of the fermenter? Is the lid on tight, I have a fermentor that has a leaky lid, I almost never see the blow off tube bubble, its getting replaced.

70 degrees. Can I check the SG to see what it reads. I would hate to repitch yeast. Are there any tests that I can do to see if it fermented?

 

[insanim8er]

70 degrees. Can I check the SG to see what it reads. I would hate to repitch yeast. Are there any tests that I can do to see if it fermented?

yes, if you took a gravity reading, read the gravity again... if it's down, you're fermenting. Re-pitching isn't the end of the world. It's better to figure out if you need to sooner than later since you could be very vulnerable for infection.

Plus three days of no signs of fermentation isn't uncommon... Hell 4 days isn't uncommon. Your yeast could've been old or under pitched. I actually found the first graf that I made was under pitched with weak yeast. The only real sign of fermentation was a slight lacing on the top. It turned out to be the best one so far because it didn't dry out too much.

I pitched on top of that cake and had one of the strongest fermentations i've had. It tastes good with some age, but it was definitely dry. It needed a bit of concentrate added back. Turned out pretty damn good as well and it was a higher ABV

 

[FuzzBeckersHB]

Me and a couple of friends just finished our first try at Graff. We used Brandon O's receipe. 8 gallons of Motts AJ from Walmart and 2 gallons of wort. We pitched Nottinghams dry right on top of the must/wort. Added yeast nutrient and fermented @ 68 degrees in chest freezer chamber. Fermented for 2 weeks and transferred into 2 corny kegs for force carb. Left at 13 lbs. for 5 days. We then set up a bottling system. Dropped pressure to around 7 lbs during bottling. Used bung on bottling cane to increase pressure a little bit to force out o2. Worked like a charm. We ended up with 3 and 3/4 cases of 12 oz. Starting gravity was 1.056 and FG was 1.006. I think the taste exceeded my expectations. It was smooth, little bit of hops, nice head and retention. A couple of these will get you there.. Estimated 6.6% ABV.
We will definitely do this one again. They are delicious...
Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving...

 

[insanim8er]

ya.. I just tapped a keg of graff filling bottles to take to thanksgiving dinner tonight. Tapped a keg of imperial milk stout as well... Good thing I have back-up kegs. But now I have no back-up kegs for those back-ups... Better get to it!

Happy Thanksgiving and GO DUCKS! (tomorrow)

 

[MikePote]

soooooooooo excited. Im brewing this as I type. Gonna split it with 4 gallons us-05 and 1 gallon lavin 1116. will post results

 

[FuzzBeckersHB]

ya.. I just tapped a keg of graff filling bottles to take to thanksgiving dinner tonight. Tapped a keg of imperial milk stout as well... Good thing I have back-up kegs. But now I have no back-up kegs for those back-ups... Better get to it!

Happy Thanksgiving and GO DUCKS! (tomorrow)

Sounds great...

 

[CiderRules]

Ok so I have made this three times now. I used Brandon-O's recipe, I did the gunslinger version, I made my own version with a SMaSH pale ale. All have been less than good. None of mine have had off flavors its just the flavor is not there. I rather just make cider or a beer. The concept was good with this which is why I kept trying different recipes, but in the end I rather make a beer or a cider. Great idea I'm glad people like it, but IMO this stuff sucks... Like I said thats my opinion, best of luck to you that like it.

:cross::hs:nestar::rockin:

The secret for me is scaling down on malt extract (or even do all-grain! Makes a world of difference.) And scaling up on the crystal malts (I use 1lb 60l).

 

[Philistine]

Got my first taste today.

Quite good! This batch can only improve with time. Its been in the bottle for about 3 weeks and in the fridge for a couple days. The only changes I made to the OP's recipe was to sub the 60L for equal parts 120L and honey malt (4oz each). I also used Saaz (3.4% AA) hops.

As far as taste goes it was a bit tart as the cider I bought had ascorbic acid in it. But not unpleasantly so. Next time I'll get cider without ascorbic acid. I'll also double up on the steeping grains to up the sweetness a bit (plus an ounce or two of lactose maybe?). The Saaz was hardly noticeable so I'll look at either using more Saaz or a hop with higher AA percentage. I'd like a bit more head retention so next time I'll use 2oz of torrified wheat.

A great drink. One I'm anxious to make again soon.

Thanks for sharing the recipe Brandon O.

 

[FuzzBeckersHB]

Got my first taste today.

Quite good! This batch can only improve with time. Its been in the bottle for about 3 weeks and in the fridge for a couple days. The only changes I made to the OP's recipe was to sub the 60L for equal parts 120L and honey malt (4oz each). I also used Saaz (3.4% AA) hops.

As far as taste goes it was a bit tart as the cider I bought had ascorbic acid in it. But not unpleasantly so. Next time I'll get cider without ascorbic acid. I'll also double up on the steeping grains to up the sweetness a bit. The Saaz was hardly noticeable so I'll look at either using more Saaz or a hop with higher AA percentage. I'd like a bit more head retention so next time I'll use 2oz of torrified wheat.

A great drink. One I'm anxious to make again soon.

Thanks for sharing the recipe Brandon O.

Nice job, looks awesome...