Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[SilverZero]

I was excited to brew some Graff for my next endeavor but these last few reviews have been quite discouraging... I had thought that this was do-able in just a few weeks to a month but it seems like it may take months (like Apfelwein) for the taste to turn out the way it should... is this the case?

Like I said, mine is great to me after only a couple of weeks in the bottle. It's going to be a personal preference thing in any case. Try it now, and if you do want to let it age you'll be glad you started it now.

 

[Weezy]

You can make decent cider with the cheap stuff from the walmart shelves, but Graff is not on that list, unfortunately. It ends up exceedingly tart.

 

[ACC84]

Has anyone done a Gluten-free version of Graff?

 

[LeverTime]

I was excited to brew some Graff for my next endeavor but these last few reviews have been quite discouraging... I had thought that this was do-able in just a few weeks to a month but it seems like it may take months (like Apfelwein) for the taste to turn out the way it should... is this the case?

Don't be discouraged. Just use decent quality apple juice, and it should be drinkable relatively quickly. My first batch was bottled 13 days after I made it, and I cracked the first bottle 2-3 weeks (forgot to record the exact date) after I bottled. It tasted MUCH better than any cider of a similar age I've tried.

The thing is it tastes even better if you can let it sit for 6 months or more. But if you just want something you can drink quickly, this should still fit the bill.

 

[Dust]

Don't be discouraged. Just use decent quality apple juice, and it should be drinkable relatively quickly. My first batch was bottled 13 days after I made it, and I cracked the first bottle 2-3 weeks (forgot to record the exact date) after I bottled. It tasted MUCH better than any cider of a similar age I've tried.

The thing is it tastes even better if you can let it sit for 6 months or more. But if you just want something you can drink quickly, this should still fit the bill.

Oh I see, well what would be a good quality apple juice to use?

 

[jgonzo108]

Update:


Well it has been almost six weeks in the bottle and the flavor profile has changed. The aroma has changed as well. The wife hates it but I think it will come around in a few more weeks. The tartness has subsided and the apple flavor is starting to come through. If I brew this again, I will defintely backsweeten and prime with AJ concentrate so it will appeal to the wife, but, I will probably try a traditional cider for my next cider attempt. I will provide more feedback as this stuff ages.

 

[Clifton]

I'd say in most cases the tartness comes from using juice with added vitamin C (ascorbic acid).

 

[LeverTime]

Oh I see, well what would be a good quality apple juice to use?

I used organic apple juice from the USA and from New Zealand that I found at BJs (local discount club store, like Sams Club or Costco). Most of the cheap stuff (Walmart, Target, generic store brands) are from China. It's hard to read on most of the bottles, but if you look carefully it should be stamped with the country of origin. I believe I spent around $5 / gallon.

 

[verboten]

I don't get it. I make this with the cheap stuff.
Petty much every body loves it. I start serving about 2-3 weeks after kegging.
I follow the recipe as it is written, and it's one of my standards here at the house.

 

[BrewerBear]

I use the cheap juice also. The recipes states to use crystal 120 in place of 60 if you use cheap juice.

 

[SilverZero]

I wanted to come back to post some "on the record" notes for anybody who's interested. I brewed this right around the beginning of February, bottled it 2/23/13 (25 days ago). I followed the original recipe scaled up for a 7.5 gallon batch or so. I used C60, Kirkland AJ, white wheat in place of torrified, and 0.5oz Cascade hops @ 9.1% AA. I fermented at a constant 67F, it finished at 1.008 (down from 1.064), and I carbed with 6oz of sucrose for 2.5 vols CO2. By the numbers, this came out to 7.4% ABV.

I REALLY like this recipe the way it came out for me. Even after the bare-minimum bottle aging time of 2 weeks I found it tart, apple-y, and flavorful. It certainly does NOT taste harsh or alcoholic (to me), though it's definitely got some kick after I've slammed a bomber of it. I'm a fan of tartness, so what some may call harsh or green, I call tasty. I'd almost call it a loss if this gets smoother with age, but I'm sure it will only get better. The only thing I would change is the carbonation level as it's quite foamy even with a sloooooow pour, BUT I also haven't even bothered refrigerating any of these to let them "settle." I've just been pulling them out of the laundry room. I will throw one in the fridge today and let it sit for a while to see how it goes.

All in all, if you're afraid of this taking too long to age out, I say put a batch together NOW, try it when it's carbed, and THEN see if it needs more time. If you think it does, well, you're already 2 weeks into that time by the time you make that decision. Never put off until tomorrow what you could brew today.

 

[j1laskey]

Second batch for me. I used 1# of C60 let it sit for 6 weeks. Kegged it 3 days ago ..."forced carbed"....it is less tart than my first batch of 0.5 # C60....I love this stuf

 

[Weezy]

I might through a batch on a Saison yeast cake this weekend. I'll rack it to a secondary and store it til summer. Time should help.

 

[hopbrad]

anyone ever try this with some Hibiscus in it? i think the tartness of it would go well. was thinking either adding the dried rose pedals at flameout, or making a tea and putting it in after fermentation is done, or using the dried rose pedals as a dry hop. i think either way itll have a pretty color and awesome aroma.

 

[pstrohs]

I brewed the below recipe on February 10th.

- 4 gal Costco Kirkland Apple Juice
- 2 lb Amber DME
- 7 oz Crystal 60
- 3 oz Crystal 85
- 2 oz White Wheat Malt
- 4 oz Lactose
- 4 oz Malto-Dextrine

- .5 oz Willamette

- Nottingham

- OG 1.063 FG 1.008

I just had my first glass of this from the keg and it is incredible. The tartness from the apple juice compliments the residual sweetness from the lactose and the mouthfeel of the malto-dextrine. I can't wait to taste this in a couple of months.

 

[daggers_nz]

finally got around to making this, following the OP recipe with Safale S-04. I noob'd out and must have not fully dissolved the LME, and it charred on the bottom of the pot. I syphoned off the liquid and left the burnt **** behind, didn't taste too bad pre-pitch

 

[SeraphX117]

I made one with...

4# 2-row munich
.5# crystal 120
2 oz torrified wheat
2lbs brown sugar (10 min)
.5oz sterling (30 min)

2gallons mashed at 148 for 90min (by accident-forgot about headspace in MLT)

added 2 FCAJ into cooling wort

4 gallons cheap AJ

s-05 yeast

og 1.070
fg 1.006

tasted incredible! I had to stop myself from drinking it out of the primary!
(recommend blowoff)
can't wait until it is carbed!

Very little tartness it tastes like malty apples. - if u want something with a quick turnaround..try this

 

[Pastorken]

Now, just because my first experimental version of this has not turned out the way I hoped, doesn't mean I'm not going to try it again! Any number of things in my 1 gallon batch could have been off. I do love the thought of a malty, lightly hopped, cider. Being a fan of sours and ciders, I know I'll do this again soon and see if I can get it right!

 

[NashamBrewer]

Well I have some initial tasting notes. I recently bottled a batch using plain ole priming sugar. I cracked my first bottle last night and am enjoying a glass as I type this. My first thoughts are to increase the Crystal 60 an additional 1/2lb. I'm also thinking the addition of 1/2lb chocolate malts would really make this brew shine. My logic behind this is there is an edginess to this that needs time to mellow out. With the added crystal 60 or chocolate malts I think this will dull the sharpness of the alcohol. I will update in a month to see how much this brew mellows out. In the mean time. A quick snap of my delectable brew.

 

[timcadieux]

Is there an official AG version of this? I'm sick of paying for DME/LME and i just participated in a grain bulk buy so......

 

[ZombieBrew83]

This recipe is so fun! I have been tinkering with the original recipe to find a way to reduce the tartness but maintain the apple flavor. This recent attempt is perfection or as close to it as I think it will ever be. If you're looking for a way to reduce the tart flavor, try this.

OG 1.059
FG 1.012
Fermented at 68 for two weeks then force carbed for 2 days. First sample was incredible.

4 gallons Trader Joe's McIntosh Apple Juice
3 lbs XLDME
1 lb Crystal 40L
8oz CaraPils
1 oz Styrian Golding 3.8%AA @30min
Ferment with Wyeast 1968 London ESB

The juice is a huge factor in this. Even though juice with vitamin C will work, it produces harsh tartness in the final product. More so than juice without the Vitamin C. This Trader Joe's juice caught my attention when my wife brought a bottle home. The flavor is much softer than anything else I've tried and the flavor/aroma is just like biting into a ripe McIntosh apple.

I found Nottingham, S-05, and S-04 dry this recipe out too much and don't leave much of the apple flavor/aroma behind. this London ESB yeast did a good job leaving enough sweetness behind to make this more palatable. Even though it has only been in the keg for a couple days, the initial tasting is much better than any of my previous attempts. Still tart, but better balance and more apple aroma/flavor remaining. I'm sure it will continue to mellow out as time goes on bringing out the apple even more.

 

[ccostel]

Where can you buy Trader Joes apple juice?

 

[NashamBrewer]

At Trader Joes. It's a chain store that's located in various parts of the US. I'm going to try a modified version of the using the London ESB along with some different malts. Once my porter is racked and I start Ill post the recipe and tasting notes when complete.

 

[BrewerBear]

Is there an official AG version of this? I'm sick of paying for DME/LME and i just participated in a grain bulk buy so......

The all grain batches I have done I used the recipe on post #77.

 

[timcadieux]

The all grain batches I have done I used the recipe on post #77.

Thx, that would have taken me forever to find!

 

[Weezy]

I found Nottingham, S-05, and S-04 dry this recipe out too much and don't leave much of the apple flavor/aroma behind. this London ESB yeast did a good job leaving enough sweetness behind to make this more palatable. Even though it has only been in the keg for a couple days, the initial tasting is much better than any of my previous attempts. Still tart, but better balance and more apple aroma/flavor remaining. I'm sure it will continue to mellow out as time goes on bringing out the apple even more.

This is a real good point. A low attenuating yeast might go a long way with preserving flavor. Thanks for the post, Zombiebrew.

 

[Gixxer]

Mine finished out at 1.011 using S-04. But... I mashed at 156 and boiled the malt portion down to 1.151. 2 gallons of AJ and 1/2gal of wort, had an OG of 1.062.

Side note... I bottled my graff this weekend, so I got a taste of the hydro sample... Then tonight the wife comes home with a sixer of Shock Top honeycrisp apple... Reading the label it sounded exactly like graff... Tasted similar to my hydro sample too! Anybody else try that shock top?

 

[jdees]

{QUOTE="Gixxer]Side note... I bottled my graff this weekend, so I got a taste of the hydro sample... Then tonight the wife comes home with a sixer of Shock Top honeycrisp apple... Reading the label it sounded exactly like graff... Tasted similar to my hydro sample too! Anybody else try that shock top?[/QUOTE]

I just tried Shock Top honeycrisp and thought the same thing.

 

[IgloosNate]

So, I think I'm going to do this this coming weekend. One question: on bottling day, do I prime with the same 4 oz. of corn sugar that I've used for every other batch of beer I've made? More? Less?

Thanks!

 

[ZombieBrew83]

So, I think I'm going to do this this coming weekend. One question: on bottling day, do I prime with the same 4 oz. of corn sugar that I've used for every other batch of beer I've made? More? Less?

Thanks!

Prime as you would a normal beer. Or you could prime it to your taste. Some people prefer a still (no carbonation) cider.