Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[capnjb]

Can't wait to get this into a keg. I used flaked barley instead of torrified wheat and the hydro sample tasted great at two weeks

 

[Soilworker]

Just made a batch of this and the wort (or whatever its called) tastes absolutely amazing. I used 2oz of malted white wheat since the store didn't have torrified wheat. I ended up using .25oz of Styrian Goldings since I wasn't looking for any noticeable hop flavor. Threw in 1/4tsp of Wyeast Yeast Nutrient too. Didn't do juice and instead used 4 gallons of Musselman's Apple Cider (only 5 bucks per gallon at Walmart).

Can't wait for this one! Thanks Brandon O!!

 

[FARK]

Can't wait to get this into a keg. I used flaked barley instead of torrified wheat and the hydro sample tasted great at two weeks

would love to hear how this turns out as I have some extra flaked barley and was thinking of substituting that for the torrified wheat as well.

 

[Rondacker]

I just kegged/bottled my batch that I started on October 6th.
Followed the OP's recipe to the T, using Musselman,s. A sample going into the keg tasted pretty good! A bit dry. I'll sample the keg in a week. The bottles will age for some months for comparison.

 

[buellulysses]

So I made a batch in a 5gal Poland springs bottle as a primary, it was still bubbling once every 15sec at the one week mark but I racked it into a glass Carboy so as not to leach from the plastic. No bubbling returned. Us this normal? I then bottled it at the 2week point priming with 1/2 tablespoon sugar per 12oz bottle. No carb at all 1week later. Did I kill my yeast by racking too early?

 

[mike_in_ak]

Probably not dead. Probably an inconsistently sugared bottle. Try another one in a few days.

Did you take any gravity readings?

 

[HopHead24]

First Graff today

10 gal batch

2.5 gal Apple Juice
8 lbs Crisp Pale malt
.75 lb C60
.25 lb C40
1 lb White Wheat
US-05

Splitting this with a friend. Wort was 1048 after sparge. His 2 gallons of wort will be boiled with 1 oz citra @45min. My 5 gallons I'm splitting. 2.5 gallons with Sorachi Ace for 45 min. The other with UK Fuggles for 60 min. Boiling wort now with Sorachi Ace smells amazing can't wait for this to be done!!

 

[Tubbster85]

So after about a week in the keg, the graff is nice and carbed, but it sure is tart. The only difference I made in the recipe was I used 1lb amber and 1lb dark dme. I used 100% natural pasteurized cider and US-05. I know it's still way too early, but if it stays tart, what could I do to sweeten it a bit? This is my first cider, so I don't know much about it. I was thinking maybe adding some frozen apple juice concentrate?? It does have a nice body and slight maltiness which I like.

 

[TAPPAR]

In the 2 months it has taken me to get through this thread I have tried a bunch of variations on this recipe in little 1 gal batches to see what I liked the best, all of which have come out pretty good.

My favorite so far is a batch where I doubled up the c120 and used a dark DME with about 3 peaches cut up and thrown in the fermentation vessel. For the juice I used apple juice concentrate and cranberry concentrate (which is strange because I really can't taste the cranberry at all) Used cascade hops and Notty yeast. Tried the same recipe with 1 lb frozen strawberry and that one is still pretty tart after being bottled for about 2 weeks, if its anything like the other ciders I have done with strawberry it will mellow out and be pretty spectacular with some more age. Both of these I let ferment out completely then used concentrated apple juice to provide the carb. I think I used about 1/3 cup per gallon.

I also tried a pumpkin version with 1 can pumpkin and about 1/2 a small container of pumpkin pie spice in 1 gallon. Added 1 cup brown sugar and used Amber DME with half whole foods cider and half concentrate. Really liked this until I put some cheap vanilla extract in there which gave it a bit of a funky flavor (still drinkable just not as good) I might forgo the pumpkin in the recipe as it took up a lot of space in the carboy and I don't think it added a whole lot of flavor. With the pumpkin I did two gallons and compared S04 to Notty. Couldn't tell a whole lot of a difference in flavor however the S04 seemed to ferment faster, and when racked slowed fermentation quite a bit more then the Nottty. When I bottled them (stopped around 1.02-1.01) I had to bottle pasteurize the Notty in about 2 days, the S04 took about a week to carb up appropriately.

My latest experiment is using the second runnings of some Heffe grains with about 3 cans of AJ concentrate in a gallon and weistephaner yeast with Haulatrau hops. Samples taste more like beer then graff so this will be interesting. I am thinking it will be more like a Heffe with a bit of apple in it then graff.

All in all this seems to be a pretty forgiving concept as everything I have thrown at it has turned out pretty good. As I said the peach seems to be a GREAT pairing to this and when I scale up to a 5 gal (in the next few weeks, want to see how I like the weistephaner yeast finished) that will definitely be in the mix as well as a good mix of dark specialty grains.

To the post above-give it some time, the tartness will subside. I have sweetened with apple juice concentrate, honey, brown sugar etc. I have heard of people using unfermentable sugars (lactose, splenda etc) or just putting some unfermented cider in there but age does wonders mellowing this out.

 

[Tubbster85]

So if I do sweeten it with apple juice concentrate, wouldn't I have to worry about it re fermenting? I have my graff in the keg at 40F. Would it be cold enough to stop it from fermenting further?

 

[TAPPAR]

When I put bottles in the fridge as opposed to pasteurizing them I have never had any issues with them fermenting more. I have only tried this method with ale yeasts which cold crash pretty easily, I'm not sure about champagne, and I would definitely be a bit worried with this method if you used a lager yeast.

Edit: re-read your post, you should be fine with the ale yeast

 

[blstr]

Hey guys I made up a Graff using some left over grains and is doing the double krausen..like a saison. It doesn't look contaminated or anything I'm just wondering if this is normal for graff.

2 Gallons:
0.2lbs Special Roast
0.4lbs Flaked Wheat
1.5gal Apple Juice
0.8lbs DME...Light Golden
0.2oz Cascade Hops
US-05 Pitched at 75 degrees
Fermeting at 68 degrees

Has this happened to anyone else?

 

[Rondacker]

Hey guys I made up a Graff using some left over grains and is doing the double croisen..like a saison. It doesn't look contaminated or anything I'm just wondering if this is normal for graff.

2 Gallons:
0.2lbs Special Roast
0.4lbs Flaked Wheat
1.5gal Apple Juice
0.8lbs DME...Light Golden
0.2oz Cascade Hops
US-05 Pitched at 75 degrees
Fermeting at 68 degrees

Has this happened to anyone else?

Yes, this is typical. I had a 4" thick layer of Krausen for three weeks. After the Krausen fell I had little bits of floaters. (Protein from wheat?)
I'm drinking the first pint from a keg that has been two weeks on gas. Tastes great with a nice apple tart/sweet finish. I will definatly brew this one again.

 

[gelatin]

I'm brewing right now (in boil phase), trying to make a sweet cherry graff.

3 gal batch

Steeped 155-160 20 minutes:
1 gallon of water
1lb crystal 20L
1 oz torrified wheat

Boil start:
0.25oz Hallertau
1 lb pilsen DME
1 lb lactose

Fermenter start:
1 gallon pasteurized apple juice
1 gallon pasteurized cherry juice
Safale S-04

Edit: OG at a massive 1.082

 

[Sharkman20]

Mine came out at 8.3% following this recipe. Anyone else get that high?

 

[Soilworker]

This unfortunately has turned out terrible for me. I'm not sure what went wrong. SG of 1.05, FG of 1.008 and it tastes really bad. I'm thinking the cider I used is the problem. I have another batch of a different type of cider that turned out similar. Tasteless, thin, tart, and overall not pleasant. I will not be using Musselman's cider ever again.

I might try backsweetening. Any ideas on how to save this one? Will it get better over time?

 

[TAPPAR]

The huge Krausen is pretty normal on mine, I leaned this time and held 2 gallons of the apple juice back until it died down, then added it when I knew it wouldn't blow the airlock off (3-4 days into ferment)

That Cherry cider sounds like it could be pretty good, could also be super tart. Keep us updated

Soilworker: That tartness will subside, I think carbonation makes it much better/gives it more body and since you are talking about back-sweetening I'm guessing it hasn't had a chance to carb up yet.

I would throw a can or two of AJ concentrate in there if you want to back sweeten. in any case let it carb up, pasteurize, and then let it sit for a month. I bet it will significantly improve.

 

[gelatin]

I'll definitely keep you updated. Pitched at 72, fermentation visible in under 6 hours, steady at 65-68 right now using a wet towel and a window for cooling. After 1 1/2 days I have a nice krausen, reddish-pink with brown flakes, only a couple of inches and though it's had a blow off tube on it from day 1 it may not need it, but I'll find out in the next day or so. I used black cherry juice and so the wort is quite dark reddish black.

I will backsweeten the heck out of it if it's tart, either with lactose or concentrate + pasteurisation, but the entire pound of crystal and lactose in a 3 gallon (really more like 2.75) batch was meant to prevent the need for it.

 

[Rustyduck]

For what it is worth!

Just finished off a batch of tart cherry cider based on the regular graff recipe but once fermentation has completed I racked into my keg over 16 oz tart cherry concentrate and 1/2 cup slpenda to back sweeten. It was excellent!
My first attempt at the cherry apple cider was good but I put the cherry in the fermenter and there was not a lot of cherry left after fermenting, much better the second time by adding straight to the keg with the splenda and then directly into the kegerator to stop any more fermentation. I am already brewing another batch, you can get the tart cherry juice concentrate at most any health food store, it is in a bottle right off the shelf not frozen.

 

[gelatin]

I would note that if you want to backsweeten with an absolute minimum of impact, there is a product called EZ-Sweetz, which is pure sucralose dissolved in water at an extremely high concentration level. Powdered splenda is sucralose sprayed onto a bed of dextrose and maltodextrin, both of which can have a slight impact and dextrose can of course effect carbonation levels.

I'll probably end up using some on that cherry graff. It fermented fast and furious but after 3 days it quieted down to next to nothing already. The krausen never even got close to out of control, it was very light in general.

 

[ksb63]

First batch boiling away, stuck to original recipe this time. Fermentation chamber at 67.5 everything ready for carboy.

 

[hopdropper]

Well add another fan of graff to this thread! Figured I'd give it a shot...Treetop AJ and Cascade hops. Love this stuff. It's been in the bottle about three weeks and is totally drinkable...almost too good really. It packs a punch...half way through the pint and I got a buzz. Nice. Wondering though...it has a very subtle, slightly tart apple flavor...was thinking about adding a splash of apple extract from Midwest in the next batch. It isn't fermentable...supposed to just add the flavor. Anyone try that yet? Oh, and check out the label I scratched up on the Beer Labelizer website...

 

[bovinejony]

As an attempt to make an apple-pumpkin cider, I brewed a graff like recipe a month ago. I followed Brendon's recipe except for the following changes:

-Used Rogue's pacman yeast (cultured from the shakespeare stout, used just because I wanted to try it out)
-Added Centennial hops as per recipe, but also added 1/2 oz for dry hopping
-Added a pumpkin and spice slosh to the secondary for a week. Not knowing that pumpkin is best to be mashed with the grain load, and forgetting to do so during the mash/brew day, I wasn't sure how to prepare it to be added to the secondary. I know that I could just add pumpkin pie spices, but i really wanted to add pumpkin into the beer. Some reading on HBT revealed that unmashed pumpkin can leave a starchy mouth feel, and doesn't add much. In an attempt to reduce this, I "mashed" 4 16oz cans of organic pumpkin (added about quarter gallon of H2O) at 150F for 45mins (couldn't find on google whether pumpkin even has B-amylase, but what the hell), strained the slosh so as to minimize the retention of fiberous clumps, added spices (quarter tsp of each: nutmeg, cinnamon, allspice, ginger)to the liquid run off, and boiled for 10mins. I then cooled and added with the dry hops to the secondary.

I tasted it at bottling and could not detect a strong pumpkin flavor, but also did not detect any starch off-flavors. It's only been a week, so in about another week or two I will crack one open and report on the final product.

 

[ZombieBrew83]

hopdropper-
I've played around with adding more malt and/or using less apple juice to offset the tartness you speak of. I posted my latest results a few pages back if you're interested. Nice label!

bovinejony-
Please keep us updated! This recipe is so fun to play around with. I am very interested to hear about your results!

 

[gelatin]

Cherry graf above is coming along well, no change in gravity since day 3, still at 1.030. Getting much smoother already, with another week or two and possibly some backsweetening, this is going to be awesome.

 

[blstr]

Put my 2gallons in a TAD today with a few bottles to spare. WOW! I can't wait for this to carb up. If it's better than my yeasty dregs sample...this is fantastic! The only thing I may do next time is add some frozen concentrate to backsweeten but probably not it's great as is.

 

[Rondacker]

Tastes really good. In keg a couple of weeks. Yum!

 

[bovinejony]

Update from previous post:

Similar to most posts in this thread my graff came out a tad tart and lacking a perfect level of 'sweetness'. My attempt to 'mash' pumpkin and add it to secondary was successful on one half as it did not impart any off-flavors or mouth feel, as well as providing an excellent aroma, but was unsuccessful in imparting an obvious pumpkin flavor to the beer. Next time I will probably increase the amount of spice and pumpkin I add, as well as adding it during the boil/mash. I also feel like the cider could use an even stronger malt-base, as it is still rather 'cider-ish' as pertaining to that.

That said, this graff is incredibly tasty and easy to drink. Oddly, my first sip all I can taste is the sharp tartness of the cider, but by the 3rd sip I hardly notice it and begin to notice the subtle malt-spice base of the beer. I dry hopped and added 1/2oz hops to the boil and can't taste them in the cider, but get that nice refreshing hop sensation when I burp (come on, we all love it). The spice adds a nice aroma, although I think I will add a slightly larger amount for the next graff. I also want to play with addidnt slightly more body to the graff, as some have done in the thread; maybe adding more like 30-50% of the graff as the malt base, and the rest the AJ.

Anyway, here's to one hell of a winter beer.

 

[PowPow]

Whats your experience regarding time in fermentor? The original post says 2 weeks, then bottle or keg. Has anyone experienced any pros or cons with leaving it in the primary fermentor for more than two weeks?

 

[nightrider069]

it looks like mine stalled what to do?? re pitch with a nutrient