Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[PortlandPatrick]

...I did rehydrate the yeast first with cider + brown sugar. I made a 2 1/2 gal. batch so there is considerable air space in the bucket....

That's a lot of airspace for the yeast to consume, so it might just be that. When you rehydrated the yeast, were you satisfied with the appearance of it before you pitched it - as in, did it froth up? Everything else sounds good.

 

[jamessh]

That's a lot of airspace for the yeast to consume, so it might just be that. When you rehydrated the yeast, were you satisfied with the appearance of it before you pitched it - as in, did it froth up? Everything else sounds good.

Yes I was very pleased with the appearance. It was frothy and I swirled it around briefly before pitching it. I did only use 1/2 of a package. Maybe this is why it is hesitating to begin?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Yes I was very pleased with the appearance. It was frothy and I swirled it around briefly before pitching it. I did only use 1/2 of a package. Maybe this is why it is hesitating to begin?

I'd think so, yeah. It never ever hurts to use more yeast... poke around Google for 'yeast propagation' and 'yeast population dynamics' to see why using more yeast is better than using less.

 

[29thfloor]

I have a batch of this fermenting right now and just got a call that the 5 gallons of cider I ordered a while back through the LHBS just came in.

I'm thinking about brewing up a 5 gallon batch of something fairly light and splitting both batches to make a Graff and a "Ffarg". So one batch will be 4 gallons cider and 1 gal wort and the other one will be the opposite.

Any suggestions on what style to do? Maybe a Belgian Wit?

 

[dirtyfrank557]

i wanna make this soon, but i have no idea when i would be able to bottle it. think this would be OK for say, a month in the primary/a few months in a carboy?

 

[mcwilcr]

Did my first batch of Graff on Saturday. It's a bit slugish out of the gate on fermentation (probably due to the potassium sorbate in the cider) but I think it will pick up ok. I'm excited to see how this one turns out.

 

[Clifton]

i wanna make this soon, but i have no idea when i would be able to bottle it. think this would be OK for say, a month in the primary/a few months in a carboy?

It'll be fine.

 

[cyberlord]

Just set a 5 Gal batch. Sounded too good not to pass up.

Nottingham
.25 lbs of Crystal 60L
.25 lbs of Crystal 120L
1 oz of torrified wheat
4 Gallons of apple juice (Kroger Brand)
1 lb. amber and 1 lb. light DME
1 oz 3% AA Hops

Tim

OK, bottled this stuff over a week ago to carbonate in the bottle.

Chilled one this weekend and drank it. I'm not that big on beer, but this is terrific and only 3 weeks since I started it. It won't last till the summer so I'll have to brew another batch when this is about drunk up.

I let some co-workers sample some today and they liked it too.

I highly recommend trying this recipe, it's awesome.

 

[mcslain]

I brewed this up about 3 weeks ago, following the recipe for the most part (didn't use the torrified wheat). So now at almost 3 weeks in my graff is still bubbling away in my primary. Gravity is now at 1002. I'd say I'm getting bubbles every 5 seconds still. Taste is a bit vinegary, dry and just not very good. Any chance I have a wild yeast fermentation going on? I used unpasteurized cider from a local orchard. I'm thinking I should have used campden tablets? Would they have any benefit if I used them now?

I figure I need to let this sit a bit and hope the vinegar taste will subside. I'd like to rack it to a 5g secondary and just leave it be for a few weeks. RDWHAHB. This would also free up my primary so I could get back to brewing IPAs like I'm itching to do. Then if the vinegar taste does subside, but it is still too dry, back sweeten it... I know there's a risk of oxidizing the graff by racking though... (I know, I could buy another primary, but would prefer not to do that)

Thanks for any suggestions on how to proceed!
mcslain

 

[DoctorWho]

Thanks for any suggestions on how to proceed!
mcslain[/QUOTE]

What type of yeast did you use (and what temp was primary)...the presence of normal amounts of commercial brewing yeast would wipe out any wild yeast going on.

The 1.002 does seem a bit dry for this, but that will vary with the yeast used.

I would secondary, you can campden when you rack if you are worried about oxygen, but i have never had this problem as there is still some dissolved C02 that will come out of suspension during racking. I would let it age a bit, retest for vinegar taste after 2 weeks and see. You also might need to back sweeten.

Most people seem to enjoy Graff at about 1.010 -1.015. (this is where mine comes out with nottingham yeast)

Hope this helps!

 

[mcslain]

Thanks Doctor Who. I used Sarafale-5 yeast. Fermented steadily at 68 using a ferm wrap and a temp controller. I was definitely surprised at the off taste... but I guess sometimes it happens. I'll go to the secondary and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[scottyg354]

Just brewed another batch of this Saturday. This time I used .25 of the 60L and .25 of Honey Malt. I also use Cascade for the hops. Turned out really well when I made it last year. Dry but tasty. I wonder if the honey malt will make much of a difference.

 

[tdogg]

I just cracked into my first batch, super tasty! I used C120 which gave it a nice sweet/caramel note, and its much more balanced that just plain ciders ive made. I used .5 oz kent goldings, and might use slightly less next time.

 

[zandrsn]

Hi all, Just wanted to share the recipe for the batch I brewed 3 weeks ago. Going into bottles today...


Recipe: Graf of Gilead
Brewer: Zandrsn
Asst Brewer: Rosa
Style: Other Specialty Cider/Perry
TYPE: Partial Mash

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 3.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 2.86 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 8.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 10.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 8.0 %
Boil Time: 30 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 gal Poland Spring (R) Water 1 -
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.6 %
1.0 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 0.9 %
1 lbs Amber Dry Extract (12.5 SRM) Dry Extract 4 15.2 %
1 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 5 15.2 %
0.70 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 10.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 7 -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 2.0 days) Other 8 -
4 lbs Apple Juice (3.0 SRM) Grain 9 61.0 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 6 lbs 9.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 3.00 qt of water at 159.4 F 155.0 F 30 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 2.32 gal water at 170.0 F
Notes:
------
Steep the 60L and torrified wheat in .75 gallons of water @ 155 degrees for 30 mins.
Sparge with .25 gallons 170 degree water and throw away grains.
Add DME and bring to a boil.
Add hops when boiling starts and boil for 30 mins.

Cool down the wort (if you choose not to cool the wort and just let the AJ do the cooling then your cider won't be as clear). Pour the wort and apple juice into your carboy and pitch yeast.

At 3 weeks time bottle with 4 oz of corn sugar.

 

[LeverTime]

I made some of this last night, with 0.5 oz of Saaz and 2 lbs of extra light DME. I pitched at 70, and put a three-piece airlock on it. When I came home from work this evening, the stopper had shot right off the carboy, and left yeasty debris about five feet up the wall it was next to. I am a bit sorry to have missed that, it would have been awesome to watch. I replaced it with a blowoff tube, and it's bubbling away.

Since krausen was oozing out of the top, I am hoping that it didn't get infected, but I guess I will have to wait and see.

 

[urbanmyth]

I am going to brew this sometime in the next week or so, using half a pound of wheat DME, one and half pounds of amber DME and one fourth an ounce of German Magnum. Using this more as a clean up recipe than anything, as I have these ingredients leftover from previous brews.

 

[Urtalkn2Diz]

I bottled my first batch lastnight. Unfortunately my 2 week fermentation period was up last weekend but I was out of town and didnt get to do it until last night. I followed the original recipe with cascade hops and it did not taste good at all. Dry, mellow apple flavor, slight malt taste then the finish was all over the place. Most noticable was a harsh hoppy/pepper-type/acidic bite as an after taste. Not sweet at all. I added 4.8 oz of a sugar solution for carbing to the 5 gallon batch to carb it. Almost wish I added more to retain some residual sweetness. Anyone else run into this harsh aftertaste?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

I bottled my first batch lastnight. Unfortunately my 2 week fermentation period was up last weekend but I was out of town and didnt get to do it until last night. I followed the original recipe with cascade hops and it did not taste good at all. Dry, mellow apple flavor, slight malt taste then the finish was all over the place. Most noticable was a harsh hoppy/pepper-type/acidic bite as an after taste. Not sweet at all. I added 4.8 oz of a sugar solution for carbing to the 5 gallon batch to carb it. Almost wish I added more to retain some residual sweetness. Anyone else run into this harsh aftertaste?

Adding more sugar when priming wouldn't have created more residual sweetness since it would have ended up fermenting and creating bottle bombs - unless you're just talking in general terms and really meant adding a non-fermentable sugar for backsweetening.

Regardless... I have made the batch a dozen times and only get an acidic taste when using an apple juice with Vitamin C, OR, when fermenting in a too-warm environment. Did you use ascorbic acid-spiked juice? Was the room your bucket in hot?

The hop level might just be the nature of hops. It'll mellow over time, but it shouldn't be "harsh" on bottling day. Hoppy, yes, but not harsh.

 

[Urtalkn2Diz]

Adding more sugar when priming wouldn't have created more residual sweetness since it would have ended up fermenting and creating bottle bombs - unless you're just talking in general terms and really meant adding a non-fermentable sugar for backsweetening.

Regardless... I have made the batch a dozen times and only get an acidic taste when using an apple juice with Vitamin C, OR, when fermenting in a too-warm environment. Did you use ascorbic acid-spiked juice? Was the room your bucket in hot?

The hop level might just be the nature of hops. It'll mellow over time, but it shouldn't be "harsh" on bottling day. Hoppy, yes, but not harsh.

Yes I meant non-fermentables. The juice was unprocessed direct from the mill with no acid blend added. I'm thinking my temperature swings in my basement were too high. The room never went above 68 but it did fluctuate between 60 to 68 on a few occassions. I talked to a local homebrewer and he said it should mellow. I did not taste a large sample so he thinks I may have just tasted a sample right off the bottom that got stirred up. I'm just going to continue to condition it for the next few weeks then cold age it some more in the fridge to see what happens.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Yes I meant non-fermentables. The juice was unprocessed direct from the mill with no acid blend added. I'm thinking my temperature swings in my basement were too high. The room never went above 68 but it did fluctuate between 60 to 68 on a few occassions. I talked to a local homebrewer and he said it should mellow. I did not taste a large sample so he thinks I may have just tasted a sample right off the bottom that got stirred up. I'm just going to continue to condition it for the next few weeks then cold age it some more in the fridge to see what happens.

Excellent. Remember, the OP BrandonO said it's best after three weeks of conditioning. I usually drink an entire batch before three weeks is up, so I wouldn't know, but I'll take his word for it!

 

[Urtalkn2Diz]

Excellent. Remember, the OP BrandonO said it's best after three weeks of conditioning. I usually drink an entire batch before three weeks is up, so I wouldn't know, but I'll take his word for it!

I did make a few sample bottles to test along the way and the taste has changed since bottling lastnight. The "peppery" taste is gone, atleast in the sample i tried, and now there is more of a sour note with a bitter finish.

 

[ndoe22]

Is their a preferred store bought apple juice for this recipe?

 

[PintoBean]

SWMBO loves craft beer, but not so much any cider or wine. Gave her some of this, didn't tell her what it was, and she goes "what is this? Cider and Beer mixed together? I like it."

I was like, "yeah, that's pretty much exactly what it is"

 

[Rowdy]

Is their a preferred store bought apple juice for this recipe?

I have made it with motts and musslemans cider and I think the batch with the musslemans was better. Although more$$

 

[LeverTime]

I let this sit in primary for 13 days, and then bottled. I forgot to measure OG, but the FG was 1014 after priming. I used 3/4 cup of corn sugar dissolved in 2 cups of boiling water to carbonate. Now that I am looking back at some of these posts, I notice that many people seem to get between 1000 - 1010. I also noticed a THIN layer of film (presumably yeast) on the bottom of the bottles about one hour after bottling. Should I be worried about explosions?

Also, one of the bottles I filled was a Pilsner Urquell that somehow slipped past my QC. These bottles use a non-standard cap size, so I wasn't able to cap it. I don't like to re-bottle, so I poured it into a glass and started drinking it. It was awesome! Huge apple flavor. It's like drinking apple juice that isn't sweet. I don't think I've had a commercial cider, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but I like it.

 

[Athos56]

I just made a 5 gallon batch. I went all grain instead of the DME, (2 row, Clarapils, and 120 crystal malt.) I used about 1/2 oz of Goldings because I had them on hand. Can't wait to see what it is like!

 

[29thfloor]

I have a batch of this fermenting right now and just got a call that the 5 gallons of cider I ordered a while back through the LHBS just came in.

I'm thinking about brewing up a 5 gallon batch of something fairly light and splitting both batches to make a Graff and a "Ffarg". So one batch will be 4 gallons cider and 1 gal wort and the other one will be the opposite.

Any suggestions on what style to do? Maybe a Belgian Wit?

Looks like Woodchuck beat me to it (ended up doing mine with a hefe instead):

http://www.brewbound.com/news/2012/woodchuck-cider-announces-belgian-white-a-private-reserve-cider

 

[bottomup]

I'd like to thank everyone for posting up all there info. I have my first 5 gal fermenting away and can't wait to try it.

 

[thrstyunderwater]

Brewed up my estimation of an all grain version of this today.

3 pounds 2 row, .75 lb of crystal 60l, no hops, no torrified wheat, S-05 yeast

Mashed in with 2 gallons of water at 170*f which came down to 160 for an hour. Boiled down to a gallon in another hour. First time using the brew in a bag technique and for this kind of brew - it works well. Came in right around 1.1 from the grain portion.

Added 4 gallons of applejuice - expect to see visible fermentation by morning.

Pictures follow...

Brew in a bag, aussie style.

Mash out/ sparge pretty much non existant. I just pulled the bag (or rather square of fabric) and let her drain. Probably could have used my igloo MT but this was an excuse to try something new.

Pretty run of the mill boil, right? No chance of a boil over with 2 gallons in a 7 gallon pot...

Wrongo. Good thing I was watching.

The final grain based product, siphoned from boil pot and shook like heck before adding to carboy.

Bonus is that the containers are PET so they've been sterilized with star san and await a couple batches of something...

How did this turn out? Seems like there would be alot less fermentables than what's in 2 lbs of DME.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

How did this turn out? Seems like there would be alot less fermentables than what's in 2 lbs of DME.

I'm curious too. He had said he got 1.1 from the three pounds of 2-row, which sounds a touch high at ~37 points per pound per gallon, but the end result isn't all that different from 2lbs of DME at ~44 ppg.


I could have my head up my ass on this, though... I'm just thinking out loud.