Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[rycov]

just made this but added two cinnamon sticks and a vanilla bean last five minutes of the boil. smelled amazing and tasted really really good prefermentation. two weeks and i'll see how it tastes post ferment! i'll let you guys know

 

[Xand]

So it would appear that I've struck by the accursed I-word, i.e. the bane of the newbie (and experienced brewer) and have cultured my very first infected batch.

I took a reading of my graff about 5 days after fermentation to find that it still had a little ways to go (it was at 1.03) but that it tasted great, if a little too sweet, as expected. Unfortunately, as I went to rack it to a secondary to free up a primary for a pale ale I made yesterday, I was shocked to find that it was surprisingly sour up front given that it was shaping up to be very tasty and entirely devoid of sourness not 3 days prior. I'm guessing my too-frequent dipping for samples must have somehow contaminated it

I'm going to keep aging it and see what happens, but I'm not holding out much hope. Has anyone ever had a sour tasting batch that came back to drinkability? I figure I may as well sit on it in case it turns into some funky sort of quasi-apple lambic type concoction..

 

[Gnarboots123]

I cannot find torrified wheat and was wondering if it is crucial to the process. Please Respond!

 

[Gnarboots123]

Do i need to prime while bottling

 

[DoctorWho]

The torrified wheat is used for head retention and doesn't affect the flavor of the cider. It can be omitted.

You need to prime before bottling if you want your cider to be carbonated. Use the standard amount of priming sugar/DME (usually 1oz per gallon.) Otherwise, bottle and drink it still.

Enjoy!

 

[Xcorpia]

I subbed the torrified wheat with 8 oz of flaked wheat.

 

[CA-LT1]

I believe torrified wheat IS flaked wheat

 

[rycov]

from what i could find (quick google search) torrefied wheat is "popped" while flaked wheat is rolled. read that there was a slight flavor difference. but with this small amount it probably doesn't matter. we're just using it for head retention anyway.

 

[Fenderdaw]

I've got three bombers left, so I decided to do a side-by-side with Hornsby's Draft Amber. No question, I can never go back. My only regret is that I used store brand apple juice instead of something tastier. You can taste the juice in the final product, so don't be cheap.

Still, in comparison the Hornsby's is like a syrupy wine cooler. My Graff is delicious.

 

[ghstwolf]

This thread is like torture right now. I've got a batch inspired by this recipe that is ready to bottle, and it's pretty good already.

My current test batch is a maple oatmeal "cider" (testing with juice since real cider isn't available w/o preservatives right now). The recipe needs a bit of work though. My grain bill was too high on the oatmeal (laugh at the noob using 60% oatmeal in a mini mash ), which made getting a good conversion a major chore. Even after that it had a murky look to it (is that normal with oatmeal? it was my first time using it). If oatmeal just sort of does that, it's still not a deal breaker to me unless cider really clears.

Other things aren't quite where I want them either. I didn't get as much of a maple note as I was hoping for (I'll prime a few bottles with syrup in hopes of increasing that). I'd also go for a bit more hoppiness. I used a 1/4oz of Cascade for 30 min and it didn't cut it for me on a 2 gallon batch. Then again, I might just be jumping the gun on this and these flavors will come out in conditioning.

 

[Clifton]

Xand, did you use juice with added vitamin C? That could very well be your "sour" taste.

 

[Xand]

Xand, did you use juice with added vitamin C? That could very well be your "sour" taste.

Interesting Clifton, thanks for the response. I used Indian Summer, which I believe does have ascorbic acid. Have you encountered that being an issue before?

What makes me think it's an infection is that I tried it after 3-4 days when it was at around 1.03 SG and it was sweet - almost cloyingly so. No sour taste at all. It wasn't until I tried another sample before racking to secondary that I noticed the sourness. It's also the same juice I used for my apfelwein, and that turned out delicious. It fermented out super dry so it's almost tart, but no pucker-inducing sourness.

The real test will be this weekend. I'm going to try it again and see if it's mellowed and is drinkable or what. I'll proably bottle some to see what happens with some aging regardless, but I think something is funky with it.

 

[Clifton]

It may be contaminated. I've never made Graff with vitamin C added juice. However, all my Apfelwein with the vitamin C juice was way too tart/sour for me. I made another batch of AW without Vit. C and it was WAY better.

Hopefully yours will mellow.

 

[Gnarboots123]

I'm new to everything that has to do with cider and/or beer. I just tasted my graff after one week of fermenting and it was really sour. I was wondering if this was normal and if it would tone down a bit by the time its bottled and ready to drink

 

[Clifton]

Gnar, it should tone down. It will be a little tart and dry but much less hoochy than apfelwein and I think is much better much quicker than apfelwein.

I try not to start drinking my beers until they are 6 weeks old. I find that's a good timeline for Graff as well.

The timeline for Apfelwein I've heard is 8 months. I have a few bottles of AW that'll be 8 months old in May we'll see if I make it again or if I stick with Graff.

Welcome to the board.

 

[Xand]

Good news Gnar. After finally getting some more sanitizer I was able to take a sample today after what would be a week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary and it seems like it's come back to drinkability. I'm not sure where the sourness I was getting came from, but while it still has some lingering tartness it's nowhere near as sour as it was after a week in primary and was actually pretty tasty. With some carbonation and further conditioning I think it will turn out really nice.

 

[Brandx40]

I made this recipe 2 weeks ago. SG was 1.060. I fermented with S 05 and it finished at 1.010- 1.011. I tasted it yesterday and its good but I noticed that it tasted a little "hot" and I could taste the alcohol in it. I'm thinking I may backsweeten to offset this but am wondering if that would be a mistake? I know that once its on gas, the perceived sweetness will change. Has anyone noticed any alcohol flavors in this beer? And if so, is it something that age will remedy?

 

[nwbackpacker]

I made this recipe 2 weeks ago. SG was 1.060. I fermented with S 05 and it finished at 1.010- 1.011. I tasted it yesterday and its good but I noticed that it tasted a little "hot" and I could taste the alcohol in it. I'm thinking I may backsweeten to offset this but am wondering if that would be a mistake? I know that once its on gas, the perceived sweetness will change. Has anyone noticed any alcohol flavors in this beer? And if so, is it something that age will remedy?

I just tasted my first batch - it finished at 1.006. No hot flavors at all. What temperature did you ferment at? I'm wondering if you let it get too far over 70F.

 

[Brandx40]

I just tasted my first batch - it finished at 1.006. No hot flavors at all. What temperature did you ferment at? I'm wondering if you let it get too far over 70F.

I fermented at around 65F or so and let the temp decrease over the 1st week so it isnt' estery or anything from the yeast. (I used Nottingham not s05 like I put in my original post). I tasted it a couple of days ago so I'll check it out again tonight and see what its like. I'm hesitant to back sweeten with more juice because I feel like once its carbed up it could be too sweet. I'll post again once I've given it another taste. For the record, it wasn't bad, just a touch of an alcohol flavor. Im thinking its gonna be really good once its carbed up and served cool.

 

[aajpnony]

My first batch is kegged and it gets better every day....this is going to be a staple in my house. cheers to Brandon O. I used the original recipe with Nottingham yeast. No off flavors or smells, and super potent in terms of abv, I didn't take gravity trains, but two pints is VERY "feel-able"

the airlock bubbled steadily at 1x/second for two weeks straight, then went to 1x/5 seconds for a week. At kegging time, the taste was ok, but much better than woodchuck (imo), but after 2 weeks in the keg, the apple essence is brilliant and fragrant (i used the kirkland pure juice, no vitamin c) and subtly sweet.body is amazing.

I love it so much I poured 4 gallons of juice on top of a gallon and a yeast cake from an AG irish red ale (1.054 og) that I just racked into a secondary (nottingham yeast as well). Can't wait to see how it turns out!
Started bubbling within a half hour!

Cheers! ps. Wifey loves it too, and we brewed it together

 

[aajpnony]

Btw, some awesome dude (i forget who) way back in the posts said this stuff is "chugg-able" if you add a bit of apple juice to it, man is he right! Wicked dangerous fun for the hardcore power drinkers out there! Can't wait to serve it up for the block party this summer.

 

[D0ug]

I made a batch tonight.

I followed the recipe, but used some local hops my friend got from a friend. He didn't know what kind they were. :s

He said they were a German noble hop, but he didn't know what strain. I checked the wiki and it looks like most nobles top out around 6%, i used about 1/3 oz and I'm crossing my fingers.

OG was 1.060 at 62*F and I pitched US-05. If it goes down to 1.010 it will be around 6% ABV

 

[Brandx40]

Btw, some awesome dude (i forget who) way back in the posts said this stuff is "chugg-able" if you add a bit of apple juice to it, man is he right! Wicked dangerous fun for the hardcore power drinkers out there! Can't wait to serve it up for the block party this summer.

Its true! I said a page back or so that mine tasted a bit "hot". I think it is just becuase it finished at 1.010 and was a little drier than I like in a cider. The flavor is good but I wanted a bit more apple flavor and a touch of sweetness so I added some potasium sorbate to knock the yeast out, then the next few days kegged it with a little more than a half gallon of apple juice. Tasted great!! Its not too sweet, nice and off dry. It brought the gravity to 1.015. I am going to have to be sure that people understand that yes, there is alchohol in this beverage!

 

[aajpnony]

Its true! I said a page back or so that mine tasted a bit "hot". I think it is just becuase it finished at 1.010 and was a little drier than I like in a cider. The flavor is good but I wanted a bit more apple flavor and a touch of sweetness so I added some potasium sorbate to knock the yeast out, then the next few days kegged it with a little more than a half gallon of apple juice. Tasted great!! Its not too sweet, nice and off dry. It brought the gravity to 1.015. I am going to have to be sure that people understand that yes, there is alchohol in this beverage!

Say Brandx40, what does the potassium sorbate do to the yeast? when you say knock out, do you mean clarify? My batch#1 is super cloudy, but not yeasty flavored...i figured it was because I added hot semi mash to room temp/cold juice...

 

[DoctorWho]

what does the potassium sorbate do to the yeast? when you say knock out, do you mean clarify? My batch#1 is super cloudy, but not yeasty flavored...i figured it was because I added hot semi mash to room temp/cold juice...

Potassium sorbate is added to stop the yeast from being active (most people recommend potassium sorbate +potassium metabisulfite to stop re-fermentation.

For you it sounds like a pectin problem from the hot wort. If you want it to clear you can try giving it time or adding a fining agent like pectic enzyme, sparkaloid, or gelatin.

Or, if you can live with the cloudiness, it won't change the flavor. Amber bottles for the win!

 

[Gnarboots123]

So my Graff has been fermenting for almost 2 weeks now (just 2 days shy of 2 weeks) and i need to free up a carboy for another brew going into secondary. Does anyone think i will have a problem bottling this now or should i just wait out the two weeks. Im a noob so please bear with me

 

[DoctorWho]

Gnarboots123,

Unfortunately, 2 weeks is a suggested timeline for fermentation and does not signal then end of fermentation due to other variables such as temperatures, yeast health, ect.

If you must free up some space, I suggest you check the SG with a hydrometer now and then again in a few days. Make sure that there is no chase in SG. That is how you know fermentation is finished. Then you can safely prime and bottle condition for a nicely carbed graff with out bottle bombs.

Unless you want to bottle this stuff as a still drink, then just add some stabilizer (potassium sorbate and kmeta) and bottle away right now.

 

[The_Broodwich]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. So I threw a batch of this together last night. Followed the recipe pretty closely except I used 1.5 lbs light DME and .5 lbs amber DME. I also used .5 oz of the "magic hop dust" from AHB.com (~7% AA) and the cheapest non-preservative juice I could find at HEB (Texas grocery chain). Basically my approach was to make the cheapest batch I could. The whole batch came in at ~$20. The wort tasted GREAT. It's bubbling away this morning. Can't wait!

 

[mountainman13]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. So I threw a batch of this together last night. Followed the recipe pretty closely except I used 1.5 lbs light DME and .5 lbs amber DME. I also used .5 oz of the "magic hop dust" from AHB.com (~7% AA) and the cheapest non-preservative juice I could find at HEB (Texas grocery chain). Basically my approach was to make the cheapest batch I could. The whole batch came in at ~$20. The wort tasted GREAT. It's bubbling away this morning. Can't wait!

Good thinking man! I've been trying to figure out something to do with the magic hop dust:rockin:

 

[sh00t]

ok, this past weekend I brewed up;
1 lb caramel wheat
4 oz chocolate wheat
2 oz torrified wheat
1 lb amber DME
1 lb light DME
1/2 oz hallertauer
nottingham yeast
4 gallons tree top apple juice from wal-mart(s)
...............actually 3 gallons of AJ from one brand and 1 gallon of AJ from another just due to stocking issues, can't remember if TT or whatever was which