Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[CidahMastah]

Mine was brownish during ferment etc. As it dropped out and cleared it turned into a beautiful amber. Did you cool the wort prior to adding to the cider?

I did use 50/50 amber/light DME - mine was tannish to brown - not dark brown. I suspect you will have a noice dark amber color unless your didn't cool the wort to ~70F prior to adding to your cider

 

[MikeyC99]

Mine was brownish during ferment etc. As it dropped out and cleared it turned into a beautiful amber. Did you cool the wort prior to adding to the cider?

I did use 50/50 amber/light DME - mine was tannish to brown - not dark brown. I suspect you will have a noice dark amber color unless your didn't cool the wort to ~70F prior to adding to your cider

Yes, I did cool the wort down to mid 60's before dumping it in the fermenter and adding the cider and then pitching yeast. It looked like strong coffee before it went into the primary. I am probably just being paranoid, but I have never brewed anything but hard cider and mead before this, so I have no good comparison point. I just saw some pics of finished product ready to drink, and it is so light compared to what I have here. So, you say the DME give it its color? If so, makes sense the 100% amber DME would be darker, huh? Geesh, lots to learn here. But, at least, this stuff is ready to drink just after a few weeks. No 6-12 month aging like cider and mead. I like that. Thanks for your help.

 

[CidahMastah]

I hear you on the cider - see my pics I have over 100 gallons working this season alone.

You used DME right? I have heard that LME can sometimes darken with age. It is possible that the same happens to DME over time. Was your malt extract fresh? As a rule though - the extract will determine the final color of your brew (pending specialty grain, etc additions - can't recall what you used for those)

I did brew an all LME amber extract clone (arrogant bastard) and the wort is a reddish, tan. So I think perhaps either your specialty grains or LME are contributiung to the color. Have no fear - It should be lighter than the current color when the sediment drops out.

I think either way it will taste good though!

If you are a cider maker, have you ever tried the newell wood chuck clone? I just did with some "ok" cider, I was really impressed (ok cider to great woodchuck tasting hooch). Kinda like cheating, but very tasty. I did that last night too - waiting on the carb results.

Reason I mention it is.... I think you could take a young cider and do the same (bring it to drinking status ahead of time). In my case the dry cider I used was 3 months old.

 

[rocketcrab]

Is it normal for this stuff to have an almost violent fermentation? Like I posted earlier, mine took off within 24 hours, and still has a big, fluffy kreusen. I've never seen that before in any other cider or beer I've ever brewed.

 

[bigljd]

I brewed this at the end of November, and it's a great one to have in the lineup as an alternative to beer. My wife loves it too - she told me I have to make it again before summer, since our first batch is running low. It does keep getting smoother with every week in the bottle. I've ordered up the grain and DME for another batch, now I just have to get to the supermarket and pick up 4 more gal of cider.
It's great stuff - thanks for sharing the recipe!

 

[MikeyC99]

I hear you on the cider - see my pics I have over 100 gallons working this season alone.

You used DME right? I have heard that LME can sometimes darken with age. It is possible that the same happens to DME over time. Was your malt extract fresh? As a rule though - the extract will determine the final color of your brew (pending specialty grain, etc additions - can't recall what you used for those)

I did brew an all LME amber extract clone (arrogant bastard) and the wort is a reddish, tan. So I think perhaps either your specialty grains or LME are contributiung to the color. Have no fear - It should be lighter than the current color when the sediment drops out.

I think either way it will taste good though!

If you are a cider maker, have you ever tried the newell wood chuck clone? I just did with some "ok" cider, I was really impressed (ok cider to great woodchuck tasting hooch). Kinda like cheating, but very tasty. I did that last night too - waiting on the carb results.

Reason I mention it is.... I think you could take a young cider and do the same (bring it to drinking status ahead of time). In my case the dry cider I used was 3 months old.

I really appriciate your help and advice. I have not tried the newell woodchuck clone, but it sounds intriguing. I need to look it up. Hardest thing about making a good hard cider or mead is ... waiting. However, the alternative of drinking it young is not a good one. I tried one of my current batches last week as it was going into the secondary, and about gagged. I think turpintine would have a slightly better flavor than this mess. But, age seems to be the fix for any of these brews. Wonder how long most people age the Graff before drinking?

 

[knotquiteawake]

Wonder how long most people age the Graff before drinking?

3 weeks is the average i think and its good
I've had a bottle at 10 months that was complex tasting but really not life changingly different. And i've some 4 unopened bottles that are 15 months now.

 

[CidahMastah]

I tried one of my current batches last week as it was going into the secondary, and about gagged. I think turpintine would have a slightly better flavor than this mess.

Haha - it is sooo true. Cider is absolute rat/camel piss on fire , until you give it some mellow time. The same for wines - like my dandelion one. I nearly dumped it. VERY glad I didn't.

 

[step]

Haha - it is sooo true. Cider is absolute rat/camel piss on fire , until you give it some mellow time. The same for wines - like my dandelion one. I nearly dumped it. VERY glad I didn't.

Yeah I racked this a few days ago after a 1 month "primary" and it tasted like **** so hopefully after it sits another month and then in bottles another month it tastes decent... time heals all right???

 

[elproducto]

I tried another last night 4 months after brewing, and I'm not really digging it. I was hoping for more malt, but I'll just keep the bottles and try them at various intervals.

 

[CidahMastah]

I tried another last night 4 months after brewing, and I'm not really digging it. I was hoping for more malt, but I'll just keep the bottles and try them at various intervals.

Crap man.... I am not a huge fan either and was hoping time would be a healer. If I try this recipe again I would have to work on some modifications. The whole idea behind this for me was, quicker drinkable cider, not the case for me.

 

[Clifton]

First batch is in the carboy.
2lbs Briess Gold DME
.5lb G.W. Crystal 120L
.5oz Cluster 5%AA
in 1 gallon and 4 gallons of Vitamin C free cheap Apple Juice.
Pitched harvested WY1056 that I put in some Apple Juice on the stir plate yesterday.

 

[Flywheel]

The graff is looking good. And bubbling away.

2# light DME
1# Wheat DME
1# Caramel 120L

1.25g H2O
4g Apple juice
1oz French Strisslespalt 2.6% AA
2 pkg Nottingham

 

[dcampbell]

Hi all. My first post after lurking in the forum for a few weeks now. Good to be here.

Just brewed my first batch of graff. (Yea!) Followed Brandon's recipe fairly closely-

8 oz of 60L
1 to 1.5 oz of torrified wheat
0.5 oz Yakima Golding hops (5.9%AA)
1# each of Amber & Light DME
I used 3 gallons of organic apple juice and one gallon of conventional. Two of the gallons had Vitamin C added.
Nottingham yeast pitched at 68 degrees into carboy that resides in 67 degree room.

OG is 1.059.
Will post results when they happen.
Will be glad to have some feedback as well.
Cheers.

 

[Buktwild]

.25 lb of 60L

I wouldn't mess with the torified wheat.

Steep that in .25 gallons of water.

then add .5 lbs of DME and boil for 5 mins, don't mess with the hops for a one gallon batch.

add all that in a one gallon fermenter with .75 gallons apple juice.

use the whole pack of nottingham. you may need a blow off.

put the all grain right in the water, letting it go into the fermenter?
And if doubling this for a 2 gallon batch, would a 1/4 oz of ~5% Hops be appropriate?
I'm new and am really winging it but the original 5 (edit: er... 4) gallon recipe called for the hops, so I'm trying to accommodate.

 

[Buktwild]

I've started a batch that will be just under two gallons- I'm leaving a couple inches at the top of a 2 gallon fermenting bucket. I'll be setting up with a 3/8" hose for a blow off, holding the airlock until the bubbling volcano stage has passed.
FWIW,I got all my supplies at Wine Barley Hops Homebrewing on Bustleton Pike - the guy in there was a lot of help and he does seem to have a good selection in inventory.

1 lb Bries Light Golden
1/2 lb Muntons Crystal Malt 60L
1/4 oz Vanguard Pellet 5%
1/2 gallon of water

1 pkg Nottingham

I did pay for a muslin bag but in chatting it up with the store owner, we both managed to NOT get it in the bucket with the rest of my purchases. I'm gonna strain the bulk with a steel colander and hope for the best.

The Worst is cooling now- 122 deg at the last check of the thermometer. I have it outside with the lid on it, setting on a concrete step. This is the most time consuming part of the process.
Prepping yeast in 8 oz water. At this point I've gotten too much of a head start.
I did buy a hydrometer and will post a reading taken before the pitch.

Edit: Reading before yeast 1.062
Edit: 8 hours later and my blow off is slowing bubbling. Seems to be on track. /thumbsup
Edit: 17 hours and my 3/8" blow hose is popping a bubble every second.
The temp varies from 60-65 depending house thermostat setting. Therm read 59 on the floor with stat at 62 overnight. Primary is about 24" off the floor.


Edit: Two weeks passed and have racked to two 1 gallon jugs. Went directly into the bottom of the fridge. Reads 1.010

 

[dcampbell]

Hi Buktwild,
Don't put the grain itself into the fermenter. Just the liquid created from steeping the grain. If you didn't use a grain bag to contain the grain during steeping, you'll need to strain it from the wort before adding wort to the fermenter. (Remember to sanitize the strainer.) Good luck.

Added a blow off tube to my fermenter a couple of hours ago. Its bubbling very, very well after 24 hours.

 

[Buktwild]

Hi Buktwild,
Don't put the grain itself into the fermenter. Just the liquid created from steeping the grain. If you didn't use a grain bag to contain the grain during steeping, you'll need to strain it from the wort before adding wort to the fermenter. (Remember to sanitize the strainer.) Good luck.

Added a blow off tube to my fermenter a couple of hours ago. Its bubbling very, very well after 24 hours.

Thanks for support... yeah, sanitized everything, somethings several times: spoons, measuring cups, pot lids.
I have a nice 8" mesh colander and it did pretty well straining the wort.


Yeah by all accounts this stuff ferments vigorously. In my naive state, I suspect that is part of it being ready in just two weeks. I plan on leaving the blow off installed for at least four days, but I think I'll know when the rumbling stops.

 

[CidahMastah]

I would leave it in your primary no less than 7 days; but I personally would leave it in there 2-3 weeks. This will give it time to ferment and sediment to settle out better (IMO).

According to the recipe Brandon says it should be drinkable in 5 weeks from start of fermentation. This works out perfectly for you if you are bottling with priming sugar. (3 weeks in primary, 2 weeks getting carbed in bottles)

 

[akthor]

I followed Brandon's recipe except used wheat DME instead of torrified wheat. I have made two batches and they both were delicious. I did the first like Brandon said two weeks in the fermenter then kegged it. The second batch I used fresh cider and left it in the fermenter for 4 weeks. Was even better than the first.

 

[MikeyC99]

I would leave it in your primary no less than 7 days; but I personally would leave it in there 2-3 weeks. This will give it time to ferment and sediment to settle out better (IMO).

According to the recipe Brandon says it should be drinkable in 5 weeks from start of fermentation. This works out perfectly for you if you are bottling with priming sugar. (3 weeks in primary, 2 weeks getting carbed in bottles)

Is fermentation fully done in 2-3 weeks? If not, how do you prevent bottle bombs when you charge the bottles for carbing? How are the bottles stored after carbing? Cold crashed and stored cold afterwards? Can they be stored warm, or will that create the bottle bombs that worry me so much?

 

[russd32]

I started a batch of this stuff this morning. I haven't even tasted it yet but I already like it because it was so easy to make!

 

[Buktwild]

I've started a batch that will be just under two gallons- I'm leaving a couple inches at the top of a 2 gallon fermenting bucket. I'll be setting up with a 3/8" hose for a blow off, holding the airlock until the bubbling volcano stage has passed.
FWIW,I got all my supplies at Wine Barley Hops Homebrewing on Bustleton Pike - the guy in there was a lot of help and he does seem to have a good selection in inventory.

1 lb Bries Light Golden
1/2 lb Muntons Crystal Malt 60L
1/4 oz Vanguard Pellet 5%
1/2 gallon of water

1 pkg Nottingham

I did pay for a muslin bag but in chatting it up with the store owner, we both managed to NOT get it in the bucket with the rest of my purchases. I'm gonna strain the bulk with a steel colander and hope for the best.

The Worst is cooling now- 122 deg at the last check of the thermometer. I have it outside with the lid on it, setting on a concrete step. This is the most time consuming part of the process.
Prepping yeast in 8 oz water. At this point I've gotten too much of a head start.
I did buy a hydrometer and will post a reading taken before the pitch.

Edit: Reading before yeast 1.062
Edit: 8 hours later and my blow off is slowing bubbling. Seems to be on track. /thumbsup
Edit: 17 hours and my 3/8" blow hose is popping a bubble every second.
The temp varies from 60-65 depending house thermostat setting. Therm read 59 on the floor with stat at 62 overnight. Primary is about 24" off the floor.

On only the third day my bubble output has slowed way down. In the first 48 hours it was gurgling out the blow hose pretty strongly. But I noticed last night it was off the pace and now today I've switched from the hose to a S-type and it's putting out a bubble every few seconds. Definitely not the metronome it had been.

Is this within the range for Normal or is mine slowing down early? The temp has dropped to 59 a couple times from 2 a.m. to 7 a.m. but mostly it's been between 62 and 68.

 

[Buktwild]

FWIW the scent from the airlock is not so strong or tangy as it was yesterday.. It's a mellower more pleasant smell. Definitely a green apple hue to the odor.

Beside this bucket fermenter I have a 1 gallon jailhouse batch with Fleishman's baking yeast and 1 c of granulated sugar. This one smells more yellow and sulphur like. It was started 24 hours before the Graff and is still venting more strongly than the Graff is.



https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/first-batch-fermentation-stall-questions-106432/index2.html
I found this thread by searching "Stalled Batch"... oughta be a sticky!!

 

[rocketcrab]

OK, I know it's probably somewhere in this thread, but what is a normal FG for this?

 

[mikeysab]

Just hooked myself up with an all grain version of this.

10lbs MO
12oz c 80
8 oz carafoam

Mashed at 155, mashed out at 168. Collected 3.5 gallons of wort which was boiled for 30 min with nelson sauvin. Mixed 3 gallons of wort with 4 gallons of AJ and innoculayed with 2 packets of rehydrated Notty. After 24 hours, it soundec like a machine gun. After 48 hours now, its still going strong but slowing. I wouldnt be surprised if its done in another 24 hours. Really looking forward to this bad boy

 

[Clifton]

OK, I know it's probably somewhere in this thread, but what is a normal FG for this?

My sample taken today was at 1.004. I used WY1056. I hope it's done.

 

[CA-LT1]

Mikeysab: Wow, that's a lot of grain, what was your SG?

 

[vortex]

Good Question on the Gravity. I don't remember how long my first batch push CO2 out the airlock, but my second batch has been bubbling for a full week now. I was hoping to bottle it this coming Saturday. If it doesn't calm down today and start to clear up I might leave it for another week letting it go the full three I normally let beer sit. I pitched Notty on it both times. Normally Notty in beer only runs for 4 days for me and slows to a crawl. I really don't want to wait 5 more weeks to drink this, 4 would be better.

 

[platypotamus]

I've now made this both as listed in the op, and all-grain with fresh pressed cider. Both batches turned out great, and have received lots of compliments, but... I've got to say that the next time I make it I'm going back to the cheapo version with DME, steeping grains, and wally-mart apple juice.

My all-grain version used 4oz c-60 and 4oz c120, so that definitely changed the overall profile. In general, though, I've just found the simpler original version more "clean" and drinkable. The cider version also ended up with a large clump of apple gunk in bottom of each bottle, so youhave to be pretty careful when pouring, unless you want some extra fiber with your graff.

here's a photo of the label I made for the second batch - http://www.flickr.com/photos/75742922@N00/5378299037/

I'll have to make another batch soon, to have "on tap" for the spring / summer.