Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[platypotamus]

My first batch of graff has changed quite a bit over time. I bottled it about 3 months ago (9/28). At about 2-3 weeks in the bottle, it had a perfect balance of tart / sweet / malt flavors. As it has aged, the maltiness has come to dominate. It still tastes quite good, but I have to say that I really miss that tart apple taste that it had at first. Looking forward to opening my first bottle of the second batch this holiday weekend.

 

[Semo]

I have some "Muntons Active Brewing yeast". I am wondering if I can brew up some Graff. I can match each of the other ingredients but would need a 40 minute drive to get better yeast.

Anyone know if this yeast will make a nice finish product? Would love to brew today but hate to waste all the materials by using a poor yeast. Thanks in advance.

 

[Clifton]

I've made good beers with Munton's yeast. Nottingham or us-05 would be better but I seriously doubt that using Munton's yeast would produce an undrinkable product.

 

[user 64661]

I brewed this up a couple of weeks ago. I popped the primary in the fridge for the last 3/4 days to cold crash. I'll be kegging it tomorrow or the next day.

I wonder how the yeast cake would do to pour another 5 gallons of apple juice on top to start another batch?

 

[Clifton]

Do it.

 

[jamest22]

A review of my second batch of Graff based on Brandon_O's recipe at the beginning of this thread. This time spiced for the holidays! Turned out great:

http://ahomebrewlog.blogspot.com/2010/12/holiday-spiced-graff.html

 

[Powers]

I brewed this up a couple of weeks ago. I popped the primary in the fridge for the last 3/4 days to cold crash. I'll be kegging it tomorrow or the next day.

I wonder how the yeast cake would do to pour another 5 gallons of apple juice on top to start another batch?

i would take about a cup of slurry from the yeast cake (use mr. malty's online calculator to be more precise) to pitch in a new batch. the whole yeast cake is usually a massive overpitch...

 

[rocketcrab]

I have to assume this has been asked in this thread already, but.......what is the priming rate if bottling? I figure on using dextrose, so 3/4 cup?

 

[Powers]

I have to assume this has been asked in this thread already, but.......what is the priming rate if bottling? I figure on using dextrose, so 3/4 cup?

i'd aim for 2 to 2.5 volumes and use this chart...

 

[rocketcrab]

Thank you, sir!!

 

[Powers]

just note that the chart is using weights, not liquid oz.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

Also there were a few guys that mentioned Honey malt? What's the verdict? Did it provide the balance for the tart? Thanks.

I did a 4.5 gallon batch in October (only had a 5 gal carboy open at the time).

3.5 gal Food Lion Apple Juice
1.8 lbs Light LME
8 oz Honey Malt
3 oz British Crystal 135-165L
Used Windsor Yeast

1/4 oz Amarillo 9.1% AA @30min
1/4 oz Amarillo @ 5 min (wanted a little of the grapefruit aroma)

OG 1.051
FG 1.013

Racked after 2 weeks and added Gelatin... a 2 weeks later bottled it and it is really clear.

The Honey Malt works well... might step it up to 12 oz next time. The British Crystal kind of makes up for the fact I used light LME instead of Amber...

All of my recruited taste testers approved and everything I brought went quickly the night before Thanksgiving...

 

[RugenBrau]

I've had a 3 gallon carboy in th fridge for the last 10 weeks that I just bottled last night. Don't ask me why it sat there for so long. It is as smooth as can be. We drank alot of it before bottling! My fear is that all the yeast settled out and it won't carbonate. I did leave it out for 24 hours before bottling.

 

[FenoMeno]

I have made two batches now, but they stay very cloudy, unlike my other ciders. On the 2nd batch I added pectic enzyme and a month later with no change, gelatin fining...still no luck. How clear is this supposed to be?

 

[JRDroid]

Would wyeast british ale yeast be a good choice for this recipe?

 

[CidahMastah]

"This yeast allows malt and hop character to dominate the profile. It ferments dry and crisp, slightly tart, fruity and well balanced. Beers will finish clean and neutral. Ferments well down to 64°F (18°C)."

I think you could use it based on wyeast's description.

 

[CidahMastah]

cidah, my blending experiment continues. i made a real sweet caramel beer with some 60L and 120L and fermented it with nottingham at about 62 degrees for 8 days. then i warmed it up to 70 degrees for 3 days, and at the same time, i put my cider in the fridge at near freezing for those 3 days. then i warmed up the cider to 60 degrees and blended the two. now i just have to hope that wine yeast doesn't kick back up to take out my residual malty sweetness from the beer

Hey Powers, how goes it? Did you try any of this yet? How long are you planning to let it rest before you try?

I am about to bottle some dry cider for champagne purposes and I am trying to decide if I should mock your experiment with the leftover dry cider.

Thanks!

 

[sirstubbsalot]

Just bottled my first batch of Graf. It smelled and tasted extremely sour. No sweetness, no apple flavor, no malt flavor. I read a post somewhere near the middle of this massive thread where someone said that they had a similar problem, but after about a month of bottle conditioning, the graf turned out great.

I ended up with an FG of 1.010 after about a one month primary. I did notice that the flavor had imporved greatly over a taste test a couple weeks ago. Could the longer primary have caused the sourness? Anyone have any other suggestions as to a potential cause of the sourness, or (even better) a solution?

 

[jamest22]

Just bottled my first batch of Graf. It smelled and tasted extremely sour. No sweetness, no apple flavor, no malt flavor. I read a post somewhere near the middle of this massive thread where someone said that they had a similar problem, but after about a month of bottle conditioning, the graf turned out great.

I ended up with an FG of 1.010 after about a one month primary. I did notice that the flavor had imporved greatly over a taste test a couple weeks ago. Could the longer primary have caused the sourness? Anyone have any other suggestions as to a potential cause of the sourness, or (even better) a solution?

My batches of Graff have been very tart when tasted during primary. The tartness mellows pretty quickly after that though. A few weeks after primary the sweet/tart has become a lot more balanced in the batches I have made.

 

[Clifton]

I've not made a Graff yet but it is an upcoming brew.

Concerning tartness....I've noticed that the Apfelwein I made with juice containing Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) had a tartness that I did not like. My most recent batch was with Vitaman C free juice and it was much better. Still not what I'm looking for so hopefully Graff will do the trick.

 

[Schaefer4152]

Hi All,

How long will this stuff last in the keg?

 

[Clifton]

Depends on how fast you drink. Haha

 

[jetgirl]

Bottled my first batch tonight. If it tastes half as good carbed as it does flat then I will be a happy, happy girl.

2lbs Maris Otter
3oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine
2oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
½oz Roasted Barley

BIAB at 158 for 45 minutes, got 1.5 gallons of wort, OG of 1.45.

30 minute boil, .25oz of Amarillo. Added 1tsp of Irish moss at 15 minutes.

Cooled to 80 and then added to the primary where 1.5 gallons of cheap apple juice was waiting.

Pitched 6 grams of Safale US-05. Racked into a secondary after 6 days. In secondary for 6 days, with a 2 day cold crash.

FG was 1.010. I forgot to take the OG with the apple juice in it because I'm an idiot.

I look forward to my next batch. I think I'm going to add some Honey malt.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

I forgot to take the OG with the apple juice in it because I'm an idiot.

Look at the nutrition label on the apple juice... if it is 28g of sugar per 8 fl. oz, it will be right about 1.050...

 

[rocketcrab]

Brewed mine on Friday - and the airlock is going nuts!!

 

[Powers]

Hey Powers, how goes it? Did you try any of this yet? How long are you planning to let it rest before you try?

I am about to bottle some dry cider for champagne purposes and I am trying to decide if I should mock your experiment with the leftover dry cider.

Thanks!

sorry for the delay in responding. the "caramel" beer fermented out as expected, with about a 15 FG.

as the beer finished fermenting, i cold crashed the cider in the fridge for about 2 days.

after warming the cider back to room temp, i racked the 1 gallon of beer in with 2 gallons of dry cider. unfortunately, i never did taste the blend. i'll make an effort to get a thief sample of the gravity soon, and also taste it when i do. but it is worth note that i don't believe any fermentation occurred when i blended the two--at least not when i was paying attention. this is just cellaring right now at temps around 60 degrees, and i didn't plan on drinking it until March at the earliest.

 

[CidahMastah]

I gotcha - sounds like I will be running an experiment in your honor when I get to my cider bottling (I decided to wait another couple weeks before I jump on my cider).

So just to get it right, you fermented each out separately, then cold crashed and combined for bulk aging. By default this is what I will have to do as well, since my cider is already 3 months in.

I think I am going to do three groups, a 1:1, 2:1, and 3:2 cider:wort ratio. That is depending on what sized fermenters I have at my disposal. Or hopefully, the cider is so darn good on its own it won't need any fooling around with

Thanks for the heads up - hopefully march will prove to be a happy time for your experiment! I am sure it will work out well.

 

[BoundForBeer]

Quick question for any Graff veterans. I have had a batch of original recipe on for 3 weeks now and the kraeusen still hasn't dropped out. Should i see this threw till all has subsided. This is what I planned on doing just don't want to F it up and ferment it to dry. It has been at a constant 64.

 

[CidahMastah]

I vote: Let it ride. Since this is a cider the kraeusen hangs out longer than with beer. Fermentation Typically is longer too.

While I was not overly impressed with the Graff I made I hope yours turns out well (I did use cheap musslemans cider juice though). Next cider season I am gonna allocate some fresh cider to run with the recipe and hopefully that will turn out better. Mine was drinkable, but too acidic for mine or the wife's tastes.

 

[MikeyC99]

Hi all, my first post.

Just started a 3 gallon batch of Graff last night. Followed instructions closely, but had to use 100% Amber DME, and used Wyeast 1056. But the wort came out much darker than what I had imagined. Is this normal? Even after mixing in the rest of the juice and pitching yeast, it is dark brown, not any shade of amber.

Should I be worried? Does it lighten over the fermentation cycle?

Would appreciate any advice, or calming voice of experience telling me I am fine. If I am.

Thanks.