Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[akthor]

I used Nottingham on my first batch it took about 3 or 4 days to start showing any airlock activity. I was afraid I had got some of the recalled notty.

I used Safale on the next batch and fermention was vigorous within 12 hrs.

Also the Notty batch stopped having airlock activity like 3 days after it started.

The Safale batch had activity for over 2 weeks.

Can't comparre tastes yet but I will when I have drank both.

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

I can safely say that the smack pack of west yorkshire I used was fermenting away within 6 hours of pitching. As to how it tastes; remains to be seen. I took a gravity reading yesterday and it was down to about 1.019. Unfortunately, I forgot to get an OG, ( though I could plug the numbers in and get a good rough equivalent I suppose),. I bumped the temps up a couple of degrees in the hopes of speeding the process up. I'd like to get it down to around 1.005-1.008. Problem is though, I have no kegging system so I'll need to bottle condition. This is only a problem due to the fact that I added too much wheat and the cider has the visual appeal of a flooded creek in july. I will be taking Akthor's suggestion and adding some polyclar to clear it. From my reading, I gather that this will kill off any yeast in suspension, (or elsewhere), and that I would then need to repitch a yeast to bottle carb, ( even if that means harvesting some from the trub before adding the polyclar, obviously I would wash it first),. This seems to dictate to me that it will end up dry no matter what I do as even the bottling strain will eat up the remaining sugars and I also don't want bottle bombs.


The other thing I've been contemplating is a slight dry hopping due to the fact that the hops, ( EKG's), were barely noticeable in the sample, probably due to the fact that the excess sweetness from the wheat has overwhelmed the boil hops flavor. I was thinking perhaps clearing the cider and then racking onto 1/4oz of the EKG's for a day or two at most.


Any thoughts?

 

[tippetsnapper]

I can safely say that the smack pack of west yorkshire I used was fermenting away within 6 hours of pitching. As to how it tastes; remains to be seen. I took a gravity reading yesterday and it was down to about 1.019. Unfortunately, I forgot to get an OG, ( though I could plug the numbers in and get a good rough equivalent I suppose),. I bumped the temps up a couple of degrees in the hopes of speeding the process up. I'd like to get it down to around 1.005-1.008. Problem is though, I have no kegging system so I'll need to bottle condition. This is only a problem due to the fact that I added too much wheat and the cider has the visual appeal of a flooded creek in july. I will be taking Akthor's suggestion and adding some polyclar to clear it. From my reading, I gather that this will kill off any yeast in suspension, (or elsewhere), and that I would then need to repitch a yeast to bottle carb, ( even if that means harvesting some from the trub before adding the polyclar, obviously I would wash it first),. This seems to dictate to me that it will end up dry no matter what I do as even the bottling strain will eat up the remaining sugars and I also don't want bottle bombs. Get your flavor where you want it and worry about clarity for your next batch.


The other thing I've been contemplating is a slight dry hopping due to the fact that the hops, ( EKG's), were barely noticeable in the sample, probably due to the fact that the excess sweetness from the wheat has overwhelmed the boil hops flavor. I was thinking perhaps clearing the cider and then racking onto 1/4oz of the EKG's for a day or two at most.


Any thoughts?

I would avoid the dry hops and I would avoid fermentation temps too much above 70F. Give it time to finish, then add whatever sugar you want to use before bottling, then use methods others have posted to get your proper carbonation without arming bottle bombs.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

 

[Ciderzen]

Please forgive me if this is a noobish question, but what type of hops (leaf hops, pellet hops, or hop plugs?) would I want to use for this recipe?

I only ever made wine-style cider before, and so using grains, malt and hops will be a new experience for me. I am very much looking forward to trying it though.

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

Ciderzen-

you can use any of them. best bet is to get a muzlin/chzcloth bag, and put them in that to keep them from becoming a mess to be dealt with.

 

[akthor]

I used hop plugs since it was the only kind I could find in the right bitterness range.

Tonite in preperation for Sunday's big get together I jumped my 1st batch of Graff to a clean keg to make sure it would be as clear as possible. Before I transferred I pulled off a 1/2 pint to taste...........OMG it is friggin delicious! I will always be having this in the rotation!

 

[CidahMastah]

I am going to give GRAFF a go in the next day or so. I picked up the ingredients today but had some changes:
60-70L Crystal (they didn't have the 50)
Using cascade hops (pellets)
Yeast will be safale-05

This is my first quasi beer brew, so it should be interesting. Definitely looking forward to making my apples work for me in a new way

 

[FenoMeno]

What is the correct serving temp for graff?

 

[Ciderzen]

What is the correct serving temp for graff?

I am no expert here, and have not made it yet, but if it is similar to commercial ciders then anywhere from slightly chilled to ice cold would do it depending on your preference.

Ciderzen-

you can use any of them. best bet is to get a muzlin/chzcloth bag, and put them in that to keep them from becoming a mess to be dealt with.

Thanks bootsy - I bought the ingredients, the LHBS had everything (he is VERY well stocked). Got Czech Saaz hop pellets to use now.

So I'll be following Brandon O's recipe to the letter, except I'll add in a bit of yeast nutrient to hedge my bets against bad smells and also some pectic enzyme since I'll be using fresh-pressed, unfiltered cider from a local mill (pasteurized, but with no preservatives). I also have the Munton's carb tabs for carbonation - I know they will add sediment but they should be the most simple for me to use for my first time.

I will be doing my primary in a 7 gallon plastic bucket, and will probably rack into a secondary carboy when fermentation slows but before it is finished, in order to get the graff off the dead yeast. Do you guys think this is necessary, just a good idea, or a waste of time? It will mean two rackings, one to secondary (carboy), and then again into the bottling bucket, so this could potentially oxygenate it too much. What do you think?

 

[munklunk]

What is the correct serving temp for graff?

...cold?

 

[knotquiteawake]

Maybe would depend on: carbed, still, sweetened, carbed and sweetened, still and sweetened.

 

[Ciderzen]

Maybe would depend on: carbed, still, sweetened, carbed and sweetened, still and sweetened.

For me... I would still chill it at least slightly. Only thing I can drink warm is red wines and nitrogen-"carbonated" beers such as Guiness.

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

I will be doing my primary in a 7 gallon plastic bucket, and will probably rack into a secondary carboy when fermentation slows but before it is finished, in order to get the graff off the dead yeast. Do you guys think this is necessary, just a good idea, or a waste of time? It will mean two rackings, one to secondary (carboy), and then again into the bottling bucket, so this could potentially oxygenate it too much. What do you think?

If it's your first time and your worried about it, I'd just let it sit in the primary for the entire time. My guess is that since you are using cider it's not going to clear all that much anyway, and that such a short time sitting on the trub isn't going to be detrimental to anything. You'll lower your risk of oxygenation and for infection significantly.

 

[akthor]

It's like beer a month in primary and proper keg/bottle conditioning will be better than rushing. If you used Cider I would for sure skip using a secondary and just go a month in primary.

I am

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

so I am still trying to figure out a plan for clearing this batch of graff. as I posted a few pages back, I accidently added quite a bit more toriffied wheat than the recipe calls for. resulting in some serious protein haze. I have sniffed around for info about clearing/fining etc, and have some serious issues still to be worked out. a lot of the info I can find is mostly regarding wine and cider that will remain "still" as most fining agents seem to drop nearly everything out of suspension, including the yeast. I am not very confident that after a proper fining I will have enough yeast left to rouse for bottle carbing, ( no kegging for me),.

So that leaves me with these thoughts...

I can add the fining agents when it gets to the gravity I want, and it will seemingly put an end to fermentation. So I'm wondering if I take it rather low, 1.05'ish, fine it, rack it to a secondary, and add a small addition, ( a tsp or 2) of champagne yeast and possibly a dash of DAP, would that be enough to further dry it out a bit, and to leave enough yeast to carb these up for bottling?


Am I making any sense here or what?

 

[akthor]

Gelatin doesn't remove all the yeast. I would also keep the graff in primary for a month that would clear it up a lot. Primary a month then put it in a secondary with gelatinfor a week or whatever the gelatin gurus suggest and I bet it would be crystal clear

 

[akthor]

Today is the day! Graff on tap! Deliscious!

Also I have to say using wheat DME in place of the torrified wheat for head retention works!

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

Gelatin doesn't remove all the yeast. I would also keep the graff in primary for a month that would clear it up a lot. Primary a month then put it in a secondary with gelatinfor a week or whatever the gelatin gurus suggest and I bet it would be crystal clear

yeah, at this point it looks as protein hazy as my triple decoction, no boil berliner-weisse. which hasn't cleared one iota either, ( mind you it has been sitting in the basement for 6 months with a big lacto pellicle on it),.I sincerely doubt this thing will clear no matter how much aging it gets. Good tip on the gelatin not dropping all of the yeast out though. thanks!


:EDIT:

So now what I guess I'm wondering is this: if I clear the cider and rack it off the trub into a 2ndary, pitch that small amount of champagne yeast, will cider just enter into fermentation again and with that bring the protein haze back?

Just typing out loud here...

 

[Ciderzen]

Ok, I rehydrated and pitched the yeast late on Saturday night, and had some minor airlock activity by Sunday afternoon. By Sunday night, had bubbles every 3-4 seconds or so, and now on Monday morning the airlock activity is vigorous. OG was .162, and I will check the SG tomorrow night I think to see how it is doing (I don't like to open the thing too often).

 

[elproducto]

I tried one after a week or so in the bottle, and it was VERY sour/tart. Absolutely no malt characteristics at all. Hopefully it will even out with time.

 

[petergriffen]

Has anyone here mixed in some different types of juices? How was it?

 

[buckeyebeer]

brewed 11-6 - basic recipe w/
.5oz wiliamett hops - with the other .5oz in the freezer for the next batch
smack pack yeast - american ale - fermented @ 64 degrees in my basement - pretty steady temp.
forgot to take the OG (I was watching that outragous Michigan/Illinois Game)
FG 1.06
bottled today:
Sitting here drinking the "leftovers" from the hyrometer and the not enough for a whole bottle- over ice - so smooth - can't taste many hops, a slight bit dry, don't know if I can wait for the carbonation - but I will LOL
Thanks for the recipe!!!

 

[CidahMastah]

Has anyone here mixed in some different types of juices? How was it?

I will have to let you know on this one - I have a couple mixed juice batches going, one of which is a pear cider mix. Unfortunatley those probably will not be ready for at least 4 months

 

[petergriffen]

What did you do for percent peach?

 

[CidahMastah]

What did you do for percent peach?

it happened by mistake actually. When I pressed my pears there was a massive amount of sediment/lees and I didn't have any pear juice left (at first racking). I would guess that there is approximately 1/3 to 1/2 at most cider. I think it will probably improve the mix.

 

[tippetsnapper]

Has anyone here mixed in some different types of juices? How was it?

I did this recipe but scaled it for 3 gallons fresh peach cider and 2 gallons beer and fermented out with ESB yeast, then back sweetened with a half can of peach puree after chilling. Results are very good.

 

[Flywheel]

anyone tired Strisselspalt hops and a belgian yeast? Cider Saison?

 

[JumboBlimpJumbo]

I just brewed up a batch of this last night with a belgian yeast (White Labs 530 Abbey Ale). I used 4 gallons apple juice, 2 lbs light DME in a gallon of water, 1 lb Crystal 60, 1/2 lb Carapils, 1/2 lb Maltodextrin, 0.75 oz Liberty 4.5% for 60 minutes, and 0.75 oz Liberty for 5 minutes. I added a tablespoon of yeast nutrient and oxygenated with pure O2 and a diffusion stone. After primary fermentation is complete I plan on adding an oz of dark toast oak chips for a week or so.

The wort tasted delicious, but then again it was apple juice with beer wort in it so of course it was delicious.

 

[firefly765]

Planning a batch of this tomorrow using hallertaur hops & YEAST STRAIN: 3068 | Weihenstephan Weizen that I have washed. Do most of you guys make a starter for the yeast? Or, just dump it in the fermenter?

Thanks.

 

[JumboBlimpJumbo]

It's a fairly high gravity so a starter would be a good idea, but I just dumped mine in because a fly got in my last yeast starter. If you don't use a starter be sure to aerate the wort.