Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[klyph]

After making the OP's recipe, I just bottled yesterday, and tasted a sample.

It's VERY dry, tastes like it needs sweetness, but it could be due to the fact that the hops haven't mellowed yet?

The wife was pretty harsh about. "Vomit taste" was how she described it. I think she may be talking about the sulfur/sour taste. I didn't think it was that bad, but she couldn't stand it.

Anyway, is this common when graff is still green, or did I botch something along the way?

After a week and a half in the bottle, the flavor is much improved. This could be due to the sweetening of the as-yet unfermented priming sugar, or due to the fact that a lot of the yeast has dropped out and it's quite clear now. I can't wait to see how this tastes in 2 weeks (No really I can't wait, I'm trying another bottle when I get home).

 

[hroth521]

First, if you come at apple cider beer from a beer perspective it's going to seem dry, tart and thin but the flavor grows on you. And it gets better with 6 weeks in the bottle.

Second, if you come at it from a cider perspective it's a fuller, slightly sweet, aromatic cider with a touch of malt and a much better head. And it gets better with 6 weeks in the bottle.

I know everyone talks about how this is great after just 2 weeks in the bottle and it really wasn't bad then, but it really does get much better after 6 weeks in the bottle.

 

[paint_it_black]

I ave it plenty of time to condition and mellow. Of course I was impatient and tried it two or three weeks after bottling, but also left some for 2 months or so. Still didn't seem to improve.

 

[jalgayer]

Brewed a very close version of this last night.

Crystal 80 1/2 lb
Wheat 2 oz
Steeped for 30 mins / Sparged
30 min boil
1/2 oz tett
2 1/2 lbs extra light dme
1 lb of clover honey at flameout
cooled to 100 poured wort into 4 gallons of chilled apple juice
pitched 1 pkg notty
no action yet after 12 hrs
OG 1.072
Great tasting sample!
I will update the results

Definitely post the results. I am wonder what a pound of honey will do to an already drier drink.

 

[Stuntman]

Alrighty Mr. Brandon O. I am going to do this one tomorrow, maybe Sunday and let the people I will have over see how easy it is to home brew. This time I am going with your recipe perfectly, sure liked the first ten gallons. I am only doing 5 this time, as I had to be told what happened after I drank too much of this Graff. Ten gallons to me was about six hours (different days/drunks) of, "What did I do again?"

The one I still don't believe, is that my wife was taking off from my sis-in-laws and I supposedly left after handing my sis-in-law MY freshly poured full glass of beer to jump in the truck. I would have believed better, that I spilled beer all over myself trying to jump in the bed of the truck.

 

[klyph]

Giving up beer to get in a vehicle with an angry woman...

You must have been hammered.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

I have some of this going in my primary right now. It's been going for 4 days and is down to 1.020. I added some molasses and cinnamon to it, and used Willamette for my hops. I just put some of it into a smaller fermenter and am dry hopping with some brewers gold and dried black currants. Should be interesting.

 

[EoinMag]

So, I've thrown on 5 Gallons of this, let's see how it turns out.

http://beernvictuals.blogspot.com/2010/04/trying-new-type-of-cider.html

 

[blaster]

I was getting ready to make a batch of apfelwein when I started reading this and now I'm torn.
I am going to a Russian imperial stout today and this had got me wondering if a 3rd running could be used in place of the mash and the dme (I have a little pilsen dme like a pound).

The only yeast I have is Wyeast Irish ale, montrachet, and brewferm lager.

What do you think? Go with the apfelwein and push the graff back or try it with a 3rd running and irish ale yeast?

 

[klyph]

The amount of grain and extract is going into 1 gallon of wort, so it's more of a first or second running. I don't think you'll get the same result with a third running.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

Ok, I am going to attempt something following most of this recipe next weekend, but would like to, if possible, draw from the odds and ends I have as "leftovers" from my last few brews, and want some advice...

First, DME:

I have 1 lb of Briess Extra Light DME and 2 lbs of Briess Wheat DME... I'm not too worried about the cloudiness from wheat... Should I go 1 lb and 1 lb? Should I use the 2 lb of wheat? Should I spend the $5-6 and buy another pound of DME at the LHBS?

If I use the wheat DME will that add the head retention, or do I still need the torrified wheat?

Next, if I need the torrified wheat, can some of the carapils that I have be used as a substitute?

As far as the crystal malt, I have a half pound each of Crystal 20L and Special B... since I'm planning to use Food Lion 100% apple juice, (i.e. store brand) and the suggestion was to use Crystal 120L... would 6 oz of Special B and 2 oz of 20L work?

Last question: Yeast... I have several jars of washed WLP300 hefeweizen... or should grab a packet of US-05?

Last last question, if I use all the wheat DME and the WLP300, making it a German Graff, would that make it Mrs. Agassi... aka Steffi Graff?

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

Sorry, one more question... given the above, if you had supplies of Magnum, Willamette, and Amarillo hops, which would you use?

I'm leaning toward a 1/4 oz of Magnum (10% AA) since it bitters without imparting much flavor...

 

[klyph]

Sorry, one more question... given the above, if you had supplies of Magnum, Willamette, and Amarillo hops, which would you use?

I'm leaning toward a 1/4 oz of Magnum (10% AA) since it bitters without imparting much flavor...

I think I'd rather use a hop that flavors without imparting much bitterness.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

I think I'd rather use a hop that flavors without imparting much bitterness.

I thought the idea was to offset the sweetness of the malt without overpowering with flavor... so if not magnum, then earthy or citrus?

 

[klyph]

I think a citrusy hop would compliment the apple nicely.

 

[Stuntman]

Put the Newly Weds on the boat yesterday. Everything is comming back to a regular pace. This morning I did the Graff (5 gallons). The one thing I screwed up on was no light DME. So I figured 1 lb. 10 oz. of Amber. If I am low on alcohol, it will probably be better for my marriage. I used Target this time, 6% so that is better than last time. I am thinking of a way to get the temp down for fermenting. I don't have a stick-on temp gauge, but I figure in my Wet Vac bucket with a few pieces of ice would be at least closer to the mark than room temp (room temp is how I did it last time).

First ten gallons was a blast, thanks BrandonO

And Cheers

 

[Bush_84]

I have done three brews, none of which are beer. So can somebody enlighten me as to what these additional ingredients do for the drink? I'd like to try this as I have found one of my ciders to be...fall flat on your face flat and I don't want to wait for it to age out. This sounds like a good alternative to waiting to age. From what I gather the DME will give me that body. Not sure what the torrified wheat does. And the hops just gives me a hint of flavor?

Also anybody have a quick link to discussions about different types of hops and DME? Checked out norther brewer website and kinda got lost in all the variety. Thanks!

Edit:What's Crystal 60L?

 

[klyph]

Not sure what the torrified wheat does.

It promotes head retention

And the hops just gives me a hint of flavor?

The hops balance the sweetness

Edit:What's Crystal 60L?

It's malted barley roasted to 60 Lovibond.

http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Lovibond

 

[BargainFittings]

Just wanted to extend a public THANK YOU to Brandon O for his recipe. I made a variant of it and entered it into the 2010 National Homebrew Competition and pulled a 2nd place win in the first round judging.

The main change I made was the proportion of malts. I did not have 120 and use some 150 crystal. I was using cheap frozen concentrate and wanted to balance the tart finish.

I also did not use torrified wheat. I believe I used Carapils.

The entry is over a year old and getting better as it ages. Still has a nice balance with the hop bitterness.

 

[brewinginct]

This sounds like an excellent recipe, I just have a couple of questions before I brew this up.

I definitely prefer hoppy beer over beer with a strong malty flavor. Would adding more hops to this recipe ruin the balance and taste too hoppy, even to someone who enjoys a bitter IPA?

I am a fan of cascade hops and was planning on using them but I read some mixed reviews in this thread. Has anyone found that they add too much of a citrus flavor to the cider?

Thanks, can't wait to make this!

 

[Dr_Gordon_Freeman]

making a 1 gal batch of this. I'm guessing it will be TASTY.

I'm using special B instead of crystal.

I'm using the torrefied wheat, but I don't see how it will do anything since it's not being mashed. I guess the point isn't to convert the starches from the small amount of it.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

This sounds like an excellent recipe, I just have a couple of questions before I brew this up.

I definitely prefer hoppy beer over beer with a strong malty flavor. Would adding more hops to this recipe ruin the balance and taste too hoppy, even to someone who enjoys a bitter IPA?

I am a fan of cascade hops and was planning on using them but I read some mixed reviews in this thread. Has anyone found that they add too much of a citrus flavor to the cider?

Thanks, can't wait to make this!

Hopefully the citrusy works... I brewed it a week ago using 3/8oz of Amarillo. If the grapefruit-apple doesn't work, I guess I can let it sit and wait for the hops to fade a bit.

I'm kind of surprised... I used a starter with US-05 made from a previous batch and it is still bubbling away steadily 7 days later with a healthy krausen. Not really a worry, but the beer that I had made with US-05 the krausen was gone in about 3 days and signs of fermentation were pretty much done in a week...

 

[atromic]

I did a secondary for my first batch (out of necessity, I needed my primary). The graff was crystal clear at bottling, but after 2 weeks in the bottle there is zero carbonation. Did I eff myself? There was definitely a little bit of yeast on the bottom of the bottle, but I'm used to my beers being reasonably carbed (albeit very green) after a week.

I used nottingham, and followed the original recipe. Carbed with .75 cups of dextrose.

 

[Daddymem]

Bottled up my first batch using 120L. Wow, the sample tasted great, a lot sweeter than when using 60L. Can't wait 3 weeks now!

 

[Stuntman]

I did a secondary for my first batch (out of necessity, I needed my primary). The graff was crystal clear at bottling, but after 2 weeks in the bottle there is zero carbonation. Did I eff myself? There was definitely a little bit of yeast on the bottom of the bottle, but I'm used to my beers being reasonably carbed (albeit very green) after a week.

I used nottingham, and followed the original recipe. Carbed with .75 cups of dextrose.

I would wait another week, if it gets ANY more carbonated, it just needs more time. If not, there are always those carb pills (I would use half in each bottle and re-cap then store outside in case they go off like grenades).

 

[dderemiah]

Mine was flat in March and is more carbonated now. It also has a little bit of a head as well. Time matters.

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

Hopefully the citrusy works... I brewed it a week ago using 3/8oz of Amarillo. If the grapefruit-apple doesn't work, I guess I can let it sit and wait for the hops to fade a bit.

I'm kind of surprised... I used a starter with US-05 made from a previous batch and it is still bubbling away steadily 7 days later with a healthy krausen. Not really a worry, but the beer that I had made with US-05 the krausen was gone in about 3 days and signs of fermentation were pretty much done in a week...

Still a little activity after 2 weeks... checked the specific gravity... down from 1.055 to 1.007... the sample tasted awesome...

I used 4 oz special B and 4 oz of crystal 20...
on the hop side I put in 1/4oz Amarillo @30min and 1/8oz Amarillo at 5min...

 

[Stuntman]

BrandonO, I got it down now! My second batch turned out so much better than the first. Just went into keg two days ago, the sample was more subtle in the hop area. Very good. Thanks again

 

[Dr_Gordon_Freeman]

I just bottled today after 10 days in the primary, FG was 1.006, yeast was Nottingham. I hope that it was done fermenting! I just couldn't wait and there was no activity for the last few days, as well as pretty good clarity of the wort.

 

[chuckjaxfl]

Hello board (first post here).

I just made my first batch of this. I replaced one gallon of juice with water to throttle back on the alcohol, and I added pectic enzyme to clear the apple juice. I wiped the condensation from the glass and stuck a fork behind it to try to illustrate how well the enzyme works.

Like everyone else says, this is a crowd pleaser. Mine is like drinking sour apple warheads.