Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[Recluse]

Thus far, I have only subjected myself and some other Homebrewing colleagues to my creations. Last night I brought 4 bottles of Graff, 4 bottles of Apfelwein, 2 bottles of Mugwort Ale and 2 bottles of my 3 Herb Gruit Ale to a Christmas party.. Everything disappeared to the last drop and people wanted MORE! The GRAFF was especially popular. People who swore they hated cider loved it! People who loved cider loved it. People who were mainly beer drinkers loved it.

Nothing says JOB WELL DONE to a homebrewer than seeing the stuff disappear down the gullets of friends!

(crossposting similar message to Apfelwein thread as well..)

 

[HalfPint]

This stuff has been a big hit the past couple of days. I've had some family over at the house and almost everyone says they like this a lot.

 

[Capa]

Kegged and carbonated this (using DME) 4 days ago. took my first sample today. Carbonation is coming along nicely. While the temp is way too warm for proper drinking it has a nice flavor. It's tart but still not overly so. Lightly sweet, rather dry, and appley. I like it. It tastes rather young yet so I'm not giving a final judgement just yet, but I have high hopes after tasting it tonight.

 

[Chaos_Being]

I'll be giving this a try after Christmas probably. It sounds very similar to the caramel apple cider that I've tried (unsuccessfully) to make twice. I think the main problem that I had was that after steeping my crystal, I didn't boil...and therefore both batches eventually got lactic infections (nothing visible, but they kept getting increasingly sour and acetic.) I also used Mott's in both of them, and I see that a few here mentioned that even their Graff was sour after using Mott's- any recommendation for off the shelf juice that may work out better? I know a lot use Tree Top, but it isn't sold in my area. (That being said, I used Mott's for Apfelwein once, and it came out tasting like its normal dry wine taste, not sour, so...)

The other things I can think of would be to add some lactose while bottling (I have a pound of it on hand) to cut down on potential sourness/tartness, and for an extra kick of apple flavor, use apple juice concentrate to prime with instead of sugar. I'm thinking one can would be sufficient- has anyone tried that?

 

[corexcore]

I made my first attempt at a Graff yesterday in a 1 gallon amount. Having never made any sort of extract brew before, and having not received much helpful advice from my LHBS, I fear I may have screwed up my brew. I used 49-64 Lovibond Crystal Malt, but it wasn't crushed at all. I don't have the apparatus to crush it, and i frankly didn't even think about whether it would need to be. I went back today to get some ingredients for more brews (yeah, Christmas Holidays!) and saw that they had pre-crushed in the same variety of Barley. Has this happened to anyone? Is it okay to use uncrushed grain for the steeping part? If not, what's my final product going to end up tasting like?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[Recluse]

Not sure, but I would guess you won't get quite the flavor or color from the crystal that you would have. I don't think this particular brew will suffer all that much though. It might actually be more APPLE-Y, but could be tarter than usual. I predict it will still be very drinkable, and since you only made 1 gallon, it will be gone pretty fast and you can make the next batch with crushed crystal for comparison.

As a tip, I crush the crystal by using a rolling pin on the grains in a thick freezer baggie. I tried also pulsing in in my food processor (only a few pulses!!) and both methods seemed to work ok in that I could definitely smell/see the extracted flavor/color in the steeping/strike water.

 

[corexcore]

indeed, thanks for the advice. The wort was definitely very brown, and it was almost entirely made with crystal, a little bit of carapils to take the place of torrified wheat i couldn't find. The fermenting jug was extremely dark when I poured the wort into it, darkening the AJ quite considerably. The ratio of wort to juice was higher than recommended however, because the small amount of water that would be required, 1/5th of a gallon, wasn't enough to submerge the grains. Instead, I put about 1/3-1/2 of a gallon to steep, used the same water to sparge, and then boiled it down a bit, while adding DME, to try to lower the amount. After the kreusen falls in a couple days, I'm going to add some AJ concentrate and a bit of water to try to get the balance back where it should be. Thanks for the advice on how to crush, I'll definitely use crushed grains next time.

 

[Capa]

Took another taste off my keg tonight (kegged and primed Dec 17). The green fresh taste has subsided a bit since my first taste and is now much more drinkable. Still has a distinct tart flavor but the apples are showing through more. A little bit of sweetness but mainly a background component. I'm gonna have a few pints of this tonight, I think. then it's back in hibernation while I go on vacation. If it tastes this nice now I can only imagine what two weeks away from my mitts will do to it.

 

[Recluse]

indeed, thanks for the advice. The wort was definitely very brown, and it was almost entirely made with crystal, a little bit of carapils to take the place of torrified wheat i couldn't find. The fermenting jug was extremely dark when I poured the wort into it, darkening the AJ quite considerably. The ratio of wort to juice was higher than recommended however, because the small amount of water that would be required, 1/5th of a gallon, wasn't enough to submerge the grains. Instead, I put about 1/3-1/2 of a gallon to steep, used the same water to sparge, and then boiled it down a bit, while adding DME, to try to lower the amount. After the kreusen falls in a couple days, I'm going to add some AJ concentrate and a bit of water to try to get the balance back where it should be. Thanks for the advice on how to crush, I'll definitely use crushed grains next time.

Well if you used 50:50 light/amber DME, the amber DME would also add to the color, probably more so than the crystal.

BTW, I used Carapils instead of Torrified wheat as well. I wasn't too worried about head retention anyway so I wasn't disappointed when I didn't see much of it. When I took the Graff to a party, though, and it had warmed up to just below a somewhat chilly room temp rather than refrigerator temps, the head retention was very good..and it still tasted great!

 

[Rowdy]

tested today at the 2 week mark using s04, 0G was 1.062 two week mark is 1.014.
its still real cloudy, i did ferment at the lowest range of the s04 so will give another week to hopefully clear.

the sample tasted great, defiantly has potential got a pretty good buzz from the sample.

 

[veeellgee]

So finished mine up, kegged and force carbonated in time for Festivus on the 23rd.
Came out at 5.8% and quite delicious if I don't say so myself... well actually the fact that 5 gallons of this has already been consumed in the past 5 days says it for me

 

[Stuntman]

With age, this stuff keeps getting better! I have the last five gallons (I kept it for the house) The party about three gallons were drank.

Tonight I decided to simmer with cinnamon and sugar (powdered and brown) then add about a shot of Bacardi dark rum per serving. Got a couple of Santa mugs, and......Excellent! Warm, with fresh cinnamon/apple googness. Taste like a warm apple pie.

Christmas party the Graff made a lot of people happy!

 

[mrgreen4242]

Hi - very new to brewing. I did a few gallons of cider+brown suger+yeast in the gallon jug this fall just to give it a whirl and ended up with some really decent swill... I carbonated te cider in some reused 20oz bottles (sanitized, of course) with a small amount of white sugar (1tsp per bottle or so).

Apparently, my Dad liked the batch I gave him so much he gave a me a gift certificate to my local home home brew shop (actually, his local shop, but anyways...) so I am going to scale up my production.

This recipe sounds fantastic, so I think it will be #1 for me. Couple of quick questions, though. First, if I ferment this in a bucket, should I use a racking cane type setup to bottle, or can I get a bucket with a spigot and use that?

Second, I want to carbonate in the bottle again (no keg, and really like my cider carbonated) but I am unclear how you add priming sugar to the cider without stirring up all the sediment? For my smaller batched I put a little suger right in the bottle, filled it and gave it a good shake/roll. Sounds like people are adding the sugar to the cider before bottling though? The stuff I made this fall came out tasty but with a ton of dead yeast/sediment in the bottom of the bottle (looks gross)! I figured with a racking cane/spigot I would be able to bottle without disturbing the sediment and clean it up significantly, but I just can't figure out how the priming sugar is added?

Lastly, I don't have fridge space to store all of this once the carbonation is right. Elsewhere on this site I read about people pasteurizing their brews in the bottle by submerging them in 160F water for ~10min which would stabilize it for long duration room temperature storage. Would that work for this?

Thanks a TON for any help! Can't wait to get started.

Rob

 

[Jewrican]

This recipe sounds fantastic, so I think it will be #1 for me. Couple of quick questions, though. First, if I ferment this in a bucket, should I use a racking cane type setup to bottle, or can I get a bucket with a spigot and use that?

The bucket with spigots are really used for bottling only. many are concerned with sanitation on these buckets as they can technically get junk stuck in the spigot. Certain buckets are designed to let you take the actual piece that runs apart as well as the other pieces so that it can be cleaned and sanitized, but I just dont mess with that. I ferment in glass or plastic with no spigot.

When the cider is ready you would "rack" it into the botting bucket, where you would add your priming sugar which will carbonate the cider. You can then use a bottling wand with the spigot to transfer it all to bottles so that you can store it.

if you ferment in a bottling bucket (with spigot) you would get all the trub from fermentation in the bottles

Because you are not stopping your fermentation early there should be no need to pasteurize the cider. Just keep it stored in a cool dark area and you are set. No pasterization needed at all.

Enjoy!

 

[mrgreen4242]

The bucket with spigots are really used for bottling only. many are concerned with sanitation on these buckets as they can technically get junk stuck in the spigot. Certain buckets are designed to let you take the actual piece that runs apart as well as the other pieces so that it can be cleaned and sanitized, but I just dont mess with that. I ferment in glass or plastic with no spigot.

When the cider is ready you would "rack" it into the botting bucket, where you would add your priming sugar which will carbonate the cider. You can then use a bottling wand with the spigot to transfer it all to bottles so that you can store it.

if you ferment in a bottling bucket (with spigot) you would get all the trub from fermentation in the bottles

Because you are not stopping your fermentation early there should be no need to pasteurize the cider. Just keep it stored in a cool dark area and you are set. No pasterization needed at all.

Enjoy!

That was all really helpful. Thank you!!

 

[Eascen]

Brewed it with 3lbs of wheat extract, I realize it'll be more cloudy but I had it extra sitting around...

 

[Stuntman]

Hi - very new to brewing. I did a few gallons of cider+brown suger+yeast in the gallon jug this fall just to give it a whirl and ended up with some really decent swill... I carbonated te cider in some reused 20oz bottles (sanitized, of course) with a small amount of white sugar (1tsp per bottle or so).

Apparently, my Dad liked the batch I gave him so much he gave a me a gift certificate to my local home home brew shop (actually, his local shop, but anyways...) so I am going to scale up my production.

This recipe sounds fantastic, so I think it will be #1 for me. Couple of quick questions, though. First, if I ferment this in a bucket, should I use a racking cane type setup to bottle, or can I get a bucket with a spigot and use that?

Second, I want to carbonate in the bottle again (no keg, and really like my cider carbonated) but I am unclear how you add priming sugar to the cider without stirring up all the sediment? For my smaller batched I put a little suger right in the bottle, filled it and gave it a good shake/roll. Sounds like people are adding the sugar to the cider before bottling though? The stuff I made this fall came out tasty but with a ton of dead yeast/sediment in the bottom of the bottle (looks gross)! I figured with a racking cane/spigot I would be able to bottle without disturbing the sediment and clean it up significantly, but I just can't figure out how the priming sugar is added?

Lastly, I don't have fridge space to store all of this once the carbonation is right. Elsewhere on this site I read about people pasteurizing their brews in the bottle by submerging them in 160F water for ~10min which would stabilize it for long duration room temperature storage. Would that work for this?

Thanks a TON for any help! Can't wait to get started.

Rob

Introducing priming sugar, requires that you boil a small amount of water in a sauce pan, add priming sugar. Rack beer off the sediment (trub) that is on the bottom of your primary fermenter. Best to cool sauce pan in an ice bath to under 90 degrees, then pour the boiled priming sugar mix into the batch. Without spashing stir throughly (you don't want oxygen in your beer at this point).

The bottling buckets with the spouts are easier (you only have to hold end of hose at the bottle end and not the bucket end). I don't have one only because I stopped bottling and when I did bottle, like NNatic said, I thought about the extra cleaning of spout and possible leaks later (probably too much worrying on my part).

Side note: Those plastic bottles are a lot more forgiving than glass ones. Make sure that you have the specific gravity at the right point and only introduce enough priming sugar (to your racked cider just before bottling) to carbonate. Sure don't want you to have bottle grenades blowing up in your house.

Welcome to the world of Home Brewing! You are among friends!

 

[Jewrican]

That was all really helpful. Thank you!!

no problem man. trust me.... all of that came from others helping me lol

 

[bhatchable]

I just started batch 2 of this stuff. I really enjoyed the first one, kept it basic as OP had written, with added MD at bottling for body.
Started a new five gallon batch looking to make this one emphasize caramel apples. So here is my next graff:

Caramel Apple Graff

3 Gallons of decent apple juice
-I used 1 gallon of simply apple and two gallons of treetop
2 lbs Two Row
1 lb Crystal 20L
1 oz Roasted Barley
.5 oz Yakima Goldlings

Mashed grains together in a single infusion mash, stovetop, for an hour at 155F.

Pulled two gallons of wort at 1.050. Split one gallon off into separate pot.

Topped one half up to 1.75 gallons and started 60 minute boil with .5oz Yakima Goldlings.

The other gallon was vigourously boiled down to 1/2 gallon, carmalizing it to add back in to the boil at 30 minutes.

Final volume was two gallons, cooled, hit with yeast nutrient, and a starter of WLP051 California V.

It is now fermenting slowly, 48 hours in. good copper/brown color. airlock smells great

pics below, cheers

 

[triangulum33]

My batch was in the primary for 5wks, 3wks in the bottle. It tastes more like beer than cider to me. Some nights it tastes good, other nights not so much.

 

[HalfPint]

My batch was in the primary for 5wks, 3wks in the bottle. It tastes more like beer than cider to me. Some nights it tastes good, other nights not so much.

I couldn't agree more. The first 5 or 10 pints were good to me, but I'm not liking it so much anymore. I have a gallon or so left in the keg after the family destroyed the batch in a weekend over the Christmas break. I'm thinking about bottling it so I can make way for a new batch in the kegerator.

 

[Recluse]

...is PATIENCE

My batch was in the primary for 5wks, 3wks in the bottle. It tastes more like beer than cider to me. Some nights it tastes good, other nights not so much.

I had EXACTLY the same experience. Was not liking the 'Apple Beer' all that much. Wasn't planning to make another batch. Then somehow, magically, after ~5 weeks in the bottle, it tasted great! The malty beer taste faded and the apple-y taste increased. It took about 4 weeks to where it was carbonated to my satisfaction as well, which may have added to the appeal.

It was a hit at the Xmas party I brought it to. I had started another batch of Apfelwein (which I liked a bit more originally, and was also a hit at the party) but now I have to plan some more Graff as well. Note that I left out the hops entirely, looking for a more cider-y and less beer-y beverage. It certainly turned out nice!!

Give it some more time and you might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[triangulum33]

I couldn't agree more. The first 5 or 10 pints were good to me, but I'm not liking it so much anymore. I have a gallon or so left in the keg after the family destroyed the batch in a weekend over the Christmas break. I'm thinking about bottling it so I can make way for a new batch in the kegerator.

Mine is almost day-to-day. One day it tastes good other days I dont like it. I'm not sure if its my taste buds or inconsistency in the beer. Either way, I wish it was more like cider.

 

[HalfPint]

It's weird to me. I get that cider (white wine taste) mixed with a hint of beer every now and then. It's just not my thing. I'm more of a Pale Ale Stout/Porter kinda guy. I think this is a decent recipe though for some who really like ciders and what not.

 

[triangulum33]

It's weird to me. I get that cider (white wine taste) mixed with a hint of beer every now and then. It's just not my thing. I'm more of a Pale Ale Stout/Porter kinda guy. I think this is a decent recipe though for some who really like ciders and what not.

Yes. Me too. I like big beers, Belgians, IPA's, etc. I also like cider. But I dont know if I like them mixed.

 

[WIP]

I had a funny moment yesterday. I was pouring a bottle after two days in the refer, and out poured a fingernail size clump of mold. I looked at it.... thought a bit.... looked again... thought a bit... scooped out the mold and drank it down. It wasn't as good as the other bottle I had a few days prior, but it was good enough. I am now aware of cleaning procedures, I assume I missed that bottle when I was cleaning them.

 

[Stuntman]

I had a funny moment yesterday. I was pouring a bottle after two days in the refer, and out poured a fingernail size clump of mold. I looked at it.... thought a bit.... looked again... thought a bit... scooped out the mold and drank it down. It wasn't as good as the other bottle I had a few days prior, but it was good enough. I am now aware of cleaning procedures, I assume I missed that bottle when I was cleaning them.

I give it to you for dedication.:rockin:

 

[Rowdy]

checked today 1.012 last week was 1.014
gonna give one more week then bottle it has also cleared substantially more than last week.

 

[flananuts]

For anyone who's done an AG mash, what OG would you be looking for the one gallon addition? I'm planning to do an AG APA in the 10-11 srm range and was thinking I would just increase my mash and sparge to end up with about an extra gallon in the boil kettle. I would then do a separate boil with the hop addition for the graff. If I ended up with a gallon of 1.06 wort, does anyone see any reason why I couldn't use that for Brandon O's Graff.

I also plan to use some yeast cake from a secondary that is S05 from an cascade IPA. I should be okay right?

 

[bhatchable]

I ended up at 1.060 or so with my AG wort addition. I did two gallons of wort to three gallons of juice though