Graf

[stickyfinger]

Just learned a bit about a "graf"

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/how-to-make-graf-a-cider-beer-hybrid/

while thinking about how to incorporate cider into wort. I thought about mashing in with apple cider as the mash liquor, but maybe it would be better to just make a very high gravity barleywine-style beer with a lot of C60 for caramel flavor and then add apple cider to it before or after fermenting it to get a combined 1.070-ish, amberish, malty beer-cider combo! Any ideas?

 

[Lefou]

In my opinion, I'd favor a brown ale/porter or stout variation with oats to offset the thin dryness you can get with plain cider fermentations. There's really no wrong way to do this, but if I was using all grain wort I wouldn't mash the cider, I'd add it to a higher gravity wort and balance wort/cider at 50/50 ratio, and ferment on the cool side. A warm, fast fermentation could put out some fusel alcohols, something you'd want to avoid.
If you want to do a barley wine a high gravity wort will yield a higher ABV, so expect a longer aging period as a result.

 

[saltymirv]

I would avoid heating the juice. Save it for the cold side.

 

[danthebugman]

There are a number of different things you can do with adding apple juice to a beer. However, I would steer clear of using it in the mash. I believe heating the mash can lead to some issues with pectin. Also since the juice contains sugar it will make it harder to rinse all the sugars from your grains when mashing. Best to add it to the fermenter.

 

[stickyfinger]

i might try adding the cider to a barleywine at fermentation time then and see what happens

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Just learned a bit about a "graf"

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/how-to-make-graf-a-cider-beer-hybrid/

while thinking about how to incorporate cider into wort. I thought about mashing in with apple cider as the mash liquor, but maybe it would be better to just make a very high gravity barleywine-style beer with a lot of C60 for caramel flavor and then add apple cider to it before or after fermenting it to get a combined 1.070-ish, amberish, malty beer-cider combo! Any ideas?

BrandonO's original graf recipe:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117117

I've been playing with this recipe for a while & you can do almost anything with it & still end up with a very tasty beverage. I've made graf with an ABV as high as 9.75%, added caraway, changed up the malts, LME/DME, added fruits/concentrates, honey, etc...

Don't heat the juice. Heating juice will not only set the pectins, giving you a cloudy brew, it can also impart a "cooked" flavor, making it taste less like juice & more like pie. Of course, if you're wanting the pie flavor, go for it. If you use spices, don't use powdered; use whole, cracked or sliced instead. Powdered spices are nearly impossible to remove without filtration. Use a hop sack or make a teabag to contain the spices so they'll be easy to remove when you reach the desired flavor profile.

If you're wanting a barleywine style graf, I'd say brew it! Instead of mashing with juice/cider, do a partial mash & add the juice/cider post boil; if you add it cold, it will chill down the hot wort pretty quick. You can also add FAJC (frozen apple juice concentrate) to turn the mash liquor into juice, even add FAJC to "juice up" the juice/cider if you want.
Hope this helps. Regards, GF.