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Got my kegs back.. what do you think

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Since I am close to having this done, what does one ask of a welder
1) do you weld SS
2)do you back gas the inside?
Anything else a non welder should inquire about a keggle conversion? Thanks Charlie
 
The juice forms of the acids are too weak, and BKF is good for maintenance passivation but after welding there is more iron to remove than BKF can cope with in one shot.
 
balto charlie said:
Since I am close to having this done, what does one ask of a welder
1) do you weld SS
2)do you back gas the inside?
Anything else a non welder should inquire about a keggle conversion? Thanks Charlie


sanitary welds.. you want them..





so several passes with a grinder on a dremel first, then several passes with BKF?

:off:

off to close on my first home! woohooo!!!!
 
wow, this is quite the informative thread as I'm having a fitting welded in a keggle later today! Fortunately, the mechanic doing it works in a pharma plant where sanitary welds are very routine....but i'm still going to make he back-gases. ...wait, that doesn't sound right at all. eww.
 
I think my disappointment in other welders' work has turned this thread into a bit of an alarmist one. Let's clear a few things up.

"Sanitary welds" are sort of a misnomer. Any good weld will also be sanitary. Also, you don't need a completely sanitary environment in any hot side vessel. It just needs to be clean.

When you have stainless welded, it is HIGHLY preferable to have the back of the weld protected with either inert gas (called back-gassing) or flux. If it is not protected, the molten stainless alloy will tend to break down a bit and oxidize. As a result, the unprotected portion of the weld becomes bubbly and has a brittle, crystalline structure that is full of fissures and cracks. The oxidized surface will turn black, and with some alloys, it will have a powdery white coating (commonly called "sugar"). This problem does not manifest itself on the front of the weld, since any welding method includes some form of gas/flux protection on the torch/hot side. The major problems with a "sugared weld" are that the weld is much weaker than a proper weld, and, in a food environment, contaminants can hide in the fissures. It is also more at risk for corrosion.

From experience (I welded one keggle - my own - without backgassing), an improper weld on a stainless fitting will be plenty strong, and the black oxide finish will not corrode or rust in a wet environment. So, as long as you're not using these kegs for fermentation, there isn't a ton to be worried about. It's just unfortunate that the welder didn't do a better job.

To combat the problem of possible corrosion, some BKF and a stainless wire brush are probably all you need. If you want to pickle it properly, buy a chemical called, "Wonder Gel." It's a nitric acid blend that will re-passivate any stainless surface. Unfortunately, it's pretty expensive, and it's very nasty stuff. www.mcmaster.com carries it. I don't think Wonder Gel is worth the expense unless the welds start to noticeably corrode after a few uses.

You'll probably never completely rid the welds of the bubbles, cracks, and fissures, but you can grind the ugliest of it off if you so desire. A Dremel or small die grinder is probably best suited to the job.

If I were to go to a welding shop for work on my stainless brew equipment, I would ask the following questions:

Can you TIG weld stainless?
How much experience do you have with it?
Can you back-gas all of the welds on this job?
How much will it cost...and will a few homebrews get me a discount?

If you get anything less than a positive, knowledgeable answer to any of these questions, consider using another shop, or using weldless fittings.
 
TIG welding, Tungsten Inert Gas, is a welding method where an electrode is surrounded by a shielding nozzle that dispenses inert gas, Argon, to surround the weld area. A stainless filler rod is added using your other hand, to create the fill of the bead.

What some guys do for welding stainless is to use a MIG (Metal Inert Gas) (wire-feed or 'squirt welders', one handed welding) welder and a spool of stainless wire, however they are not equipped to use the inert gas to weld. Some MIG's like those for home use, do not facilitate a shielding bottle gas. You must specify that the equipment you want is TIG with inert gas. MIG, with gas is acceptable.

Backgassing is a poor term. The weld should be made using inert gas on BOTH sides of the weld.
 
well, i happened to have a stainless brush attachement for the dremel. Wow, that helped alot. I think that after that and some BKF, they should be fine.. It really changed the appearance.

On a different note, one of my kegs has a blue tint to the inside, anyone ever seen this? and what do you suggest to use to clean the inside of these things, they are pretty nasty.

thanks!
 
The blue is probably just heat discoloration from the welding operation. Hit them with some BKF first and a green scrub pad. After a good rinse, I would clean the kettle out a second time with some hot PBW and rinse. The blue may or may not go away depending on how bad it is. Several of my kettles have some discoloration from various things but it doesn't affect the flavor of the beer at all.
 
now i'm curious about this. I am planning on welding my own keg this weekend, I have a mig with ss wire and bottle of argon. the problem is how do I back gas with only one bottle? can I use co2 for back gassing (i have a spare tank of that thanks to my keezer)?
 
Henry Hill said:
What some guys do for welding stainless is to use a MIG (Metal Inert Gas) (wire-feed or 'squirt welders', one handed welding) welder and a spool of stainless wire, however they are not equipped to use the inert gas to weld. Some MIG's like those for home use, do not facilitate a shielding bottle gas. You must specify that the equipment you want is TIG with inert gas. MIG, with gas is acceptable.

Backgassing is a poor term. The weld should be made using inert gas on BOTH sides of the weld.
Wirefeed welding without inert gas shielding is done with flux-cored wire. That is not MIG (Metal Inert Gas) welding, it is flux core welding, or FCAW (Flux Core Arc Welding). FCAW IS UNACCEPTABLE for most stainless applications.

I would highly recommend finding a skilled TIG welder for your brew equipment. MIG, though a simpler process, is harder to control, even when properly shielded, and it usually results in a much "taller" weld bead.

FYI, more "modern" terms for MIG and TIG are GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Welding) and GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding), respectively. Most welders haven't adopted those terms, though welding texts use them quite often.

"Back gas purging" is the full and correct term for the process your shop should be using.
 
yuri any thoughts on using co2 for my back gas purging or does it have to be argon?
 
Yuri_Rage said:
If I were to go to a welding shop for work on my stainless brew equipment, I would ask the following questions:

Can you TIG weld stainless?
How much experience do you have with it?
Can you back-gas all of the welds on this job?
How much will it cost...and will a few homebrews get me a discount?

If you get anything less than a positive, knowledgeable answer to any of these questions, consider using another shop, or using weldless fittings.

Thanks, Now I can act smarter than I really am:)
 
Should have been tig welded and burn through could have been non existant... Back gassing if possible is totally not necessary... The only way to have a perfect weld would be to weld from the inside, which would be tricky but possible...

Use a angle grinder with a layered type sand paper disc to clean it up... As the sand paper wears off a new layer is behind it-- it will clean those welds nicely without gouging or removing too much metal.
 
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