Got a welder, now the fun begins...

[Ohio-Ed]

I have already kind of gotten into the habit of touching the pedal before I start welding, just to hear to gas hiss to make sure it's on. I forgot to turn the valve on and melted a tungsten... now I have the new routine.

BrewBeemer - I didn't really think about turning the purge on and off until I started putting the stuff together. The idea of having it "connected" to the timing of the torch would be very sweet. When I waste the first bottle from my stupidity of forgetting to turn off the purge, I'll be exploring this further.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

I forgot to turn the valve on and melted a tungsten... now I have the new routine.

When I waste the first bottle from my stupidity of forgetting to turn off the purge, I'll be exploring this further.

Ed

Wow Ed, i've done both in the past.
Worse one so far had my torch cooler switched seperate from the welder and started welding a couple minutes at low amps then had that sinking feeling, all was well no torch or power line replacement.
Now the torch cooler is plugged into the welder, welder on cooler on, 100% idiot proof plus I installed a torch coolant sight to see I have proper coolant flow.
Goofy friend of mine flipped the preflow timer switch on, had a arc delay thinking ok no a welder problem until I fingered it out, same as the HF contacts a simple clean and set your golden. These HF contacts can over time cause src start problems a quick simple (like me) fix.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Lookie lookie Ed it has your name on it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-SYNCROWA...emZ390173647403QQcategoryZ92150QQcmdZViewItem

Here's a bare 250 Sync w/foot control only no torch or cooler at $2,150, add $600 or more to complete.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-SYNCROWA...mZ370460009765QQcategoryZ113743QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Lookie lookie Ed it has your name on it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-SYNCROWA...emZ390173647403QQcategoryZ92150QQcmdZViewItem

Here's a bare 250 Sync w/foot control only no torch or cooler at $2,150, add $600 or more to complete.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-SYNCROWA...mZ370460009765QQcategoryZ113743QQcmdZViewItem

I thought we were friends. Now I see you are trying to get me killed? If I looked at another welder that is exactly what would happen.

Now, if you happen to run across a screaming deal on a plasma cutter, well...

I've been a little side tracked the past few days, so no updates.
However, I did receive a Tee adapter and another flowmeter to setup a purge. I have a 25' hose coming that should show up today.
I'm thinking of putting a shutoff valve about 5' from the end of the hose. I'm assuming most any small gas valve should work, I just need to make a run to one of the big box stores and see what I can find. I'm thinking about cutting up a corney dip tube to see if I can fabricate a "GreenMonti Style" purge.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

I hear ya Ed, the War Department can have 30 pairs of shoes but no only one welder for you.
On the valve i'd use a needle valve this allows for finer gas flow control after your flowmeter.
Time to make some wifey welded projects keeps her in the loop and happy.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I had my first disappointment with the new welder last night.

I gathered up all the stuff and planed to put together a GreenMonti style purge.

I got a piece of 1/4" ss tubing and I found an insulated ss coffee cup that I decided I'd cut up to make the purge:

I rested the guard of my angle grinder on the table and rotated the cup into it to make a clean straight cut:

I was kind of surprised that the liner came out as cleanly as it did so I decided to use the liner as the housing for the purge.

Story continues in the next message.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I cut a piece of the 1/4" tubing, welded the end shut and cut slots in it:

Continues next msg.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

This is where things went bad... I put a hole in the liner and tried to weld the tube in place. I used a .040 tungsten and had the current set to about 35 amps. I only had 1/16" filler, so that's what I tried to use. I got the tube tacked in a couple places then ended up blowing a hole in the cup... I pretty quickly realized this was going to be beyond what I could do, so I just played with trying to fill the hole and weld the tube.

I found that AS SOON as the cup got shiny and a puddle appeared, a hole was there almost the same instant. The filler was to big and kept "freezing" the puddle when I did try to us it. Here is some pictures of the results of me playing with it:

Continued next msg

 

[Ohio-Ed]

It dawned on me that this cup liner is pretty thin...

In fact the specs say .012" is the minimum for the welder and you can see this is .006":

I got it to hold in a few spots so I'm sure the welder could do the job with the right person holding the torch. I think I just hit the extent of my limited ability.

The outer shell of the same coffee cup is .015" thick so I think I'll try again. I do want to get some smaller filler. We'll see how it goes.

Ed

 

[dmfa200]

Don't bother on something .006" that's too thin. .015" is doable if you have everything just right.
On something that thin though you would need to shield the back-side of the weld just as if your were welding in a coupling to a keg.
The oxides will float right through the weld puddle and ruin your work.
When welding thin walled pipe I can tell if I'm getting a good purge just by how the weld puddle behaves. If I'm having trouble it's the shielding on the root side.
The fit would also have to be very tight because on something that thin the instant your arc heats the edge it's gonna burn away.
.015 is pretty thin! I applaud your efforts.
What may help you and I'll try to explain this the best way I know how.
So here it goes...
Tape off the open end of the cup, make a small ball of steel wool and tape it over the end of your purge hose. This will diffuse the argon shielding gas as it fills the inside of the cup. Take a knife and make slit in the tape and push the end of the purge hose with the steel wool on the end through the slit in the tape. Now tape around the gaps in the tape to seal where the hose passes through the taped end of the cup. Now make a small hole in the tape so that the argon can push out the oxygen. Wait a few minutes to purge all the oxygen from the cup.
When it comes time to weld place tip of your filler rod on the joint where your going to make your tack weld. Use the smallest diameter rod you've got.
What your going to do is strike your arc on the filler rod to create a small ball and deposit it where you intend to make your tack weld. Work the pedal very gently to start the arc as low as you can and maintain it.
This little ball of filler is going to act somewhat as a heat sink. Once you've made a little ball on the end of your filler rod. Apply just enough foot pedal to severe it from the filler rod. Now concentrate your arc on the ball and gradually increase the heat until it flows into the tubing and your cup. Your going to want to direct your arc more towards the tubing and let the puddle flow to the cup.
Wait for the tack to cool and repeat.
I hope you follow me. I use this technique whenever I'm welding something extremely thin.
Use the smallest diameter Tungsten you've got, ans sharpen it to a sharp point
I hope you invested in the cheater lens cause being able to see exactly what's going on is what's gonna make this possible.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Don't bother on something .006" that's too thin. .015" is doable if you have everything just right.
On something that thin though you would need to shield the back-side of the weld just as if your were welding in a coupling to a keg.
The oxides will float right through the weld puddle and ruin your work.
When welding thin walled pipe I can tell if I'm getting a good purge just by how the weld puddle behaves. If I'm having trouble it's the shielding on the root side.
The fit would also have to be very tight because on something that thin the instant your arc heats the edge it's gonna burn away.
.015 is pretty thin! I applaud your efforts.
What may help you and I'll try to explain this the best way I know how.
So here it goes...
Tape off the open end of the cup, make a small ball of steel wool and tape it over the end of your purge hose. This will diffuse the argon shielding gas as it fills the inside of the cup. Take a knife and make slit in the tape and push the end of the purge hose with the steel wool on the end through the slit in the tape. Now tape around the gaps in the tape to seal where the hose passes through the taped end of the cup. Now make a small hole in the tape so that the argon can push out the oxygen. Wait a few minutes to purge all the oxygen from the cup.
When it comes time to weld place tip of your filler rod on the joint where your going to make your tack weld. Use the smallest diameter rod you've got.
What your going to do is strike your arc on the filler rod to create a small ball and deposit it where you intend to make your tack weld. Work the pedal very gently start the arc as low as you can and maintain it.
This little ball of filler is going to act somewhat as a heat sink. Once you've made a little ball on the end of your filler rod. Apply just enough foot pedal to severe it from the filler rod. Now concentrate your arc on the ball and gradually increase the heat until it flows into the tubing and your cup. Your going to want to direct your arc more towards the tubing and let the puddle flow to the cup.
Wait for the tack to cool and repeat.
I hope you follow me. I use this technique whenever I'm welding something extremely thin.
Use the smallest diameter Tungsten you've got, ans sharpen it to a sharp point
I hope you invested in the cheater lens cause being able to see exactly what's going on is what's gonna make this possible.

I think I understand everything you said and it makes sense to me. In burning up this project, I kind of tried some of what you said without really knowing what I was doing...

I tried to use the rod to "protect" the thin material. I tried starting the arc on the tube, melting an dropping some filler on the joint then trying to get it to melt in. I was able to do it occasionally, but my consistency wasn't there so often I'd over heat and burn a hole.

I think because the filler I have is so big, the "drops" were too large and it took too much heat to get them to flow into the thin material.

Because this is suppose to be a purge, toward the end of my efforts, I decided to try to use it so I just connected the purge hose to the tube, turned the cup upside down on the table and turned the gas on. It wasn't tight enough to seal against the table so there should not have been any pressure build up. I didn't really give it much time to purge before I started welding and I don't know how much gas is needed, so I just took a stab.

I did get a cheater lens and gotta say, it is fantastic.

Thanks for the response, it really helps.

Ed

 

[dmfa200]

1/16 filler is too big, get smaller rod.
Keep trying.
I'll try and get some pictures posted so you have some examples.
I think pics will help you the most aside from me being there to direct you.

 

[VpointVick]

I keep a 1lb spool of .025 SS304 MIG wire around to use as filler on light gauge stuff, but usually do 16ga and thinner as fusion welds. Tight joints are crucial when it gets that thin.

I don't know that I would have even attempted welding something .006 thick!

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I keep a 1lb spool of .025 SS304 MIG wire around to use as filler on light gauge stuff, but usually do 16ga and thinner as fusion welds. Tight joints are crucial when it gets that thin.

I don't know that I would have even attempted welding something .006 thick!

Thanks for the input.

I picked up a spool of .030 mig wire today.

Ignorance is bliss... I didn't even measure the thickness until after I tried to weld it.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Try .020", .025", .032" and .041" stainless safety wire as filler.
I was stuck using .032 for years in aviation.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Try .020", .025", .032" and .041" stainless safety wire as filler.
I was stuck using .032 for years in aviation.

Good idea.

 

[Berniep]

Hmm, I know its stainless but it seems like safety wire would be a different alloy. It seems much softer than filler rod or even mig wire. C141b Starlifters had A good bit of the stuff in them.

 

[VpointVick]

Hmm, I know its stainless but it seems like safety wire would be a different alloy. It seems much softer than filler rod or even mig wire. C141b Starlifters had A good bit of the stuff in them.

It's 304, it's just been annealed.

 

[dmfa200]

Sorry It took me so long to get back.
Here are some photos of 1/2" .020" stainless tube to a stainless coffee mug which was .015" in thickness.
My machine (Dynasty 200 DX) was set at 20 amps with a 3/32 tungsten. My filler was .045"
3/32 tungsten is kind of over sized as well as my filler rod but that's the smallest I had.

 

[dmfa200]

Until I figure this out I'm just going to post in separate posts.
A couple of tips while welding is when welding something that takes a lot of concentration and control cutting your tig rod in half helps keep it balanced in your hand.
Another thing you should get in the habit of is cutting the oxidized tip off your rod after you stop welding. That black burned end can give you trouble when restarting a weld. You'll get much better restarts.
The other thing I forgot to mention is that I only make tack welds like that on thin stuff. After tack welds are down I leave my rod in the puddle and walk my torch over the rod never taking it out unless I'm having to regroup and get my weld puddle flowing like I want it.
If I've missed anything or you have any other questions I'll be more than happy to answer any others you may have.
And by the way .015" is equivalent to 28 gauge. I don't normally weld anything this thin so the welding is not my best.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

WOW, Very nice!!

Thanks for the pictures and advice. They are very helpful.

Ed

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I tend to be a little hard headed, so with some of the ideas I read hear I pressed on with the purge.
Since I had already committed the material and no one but myself would see it (except you folks here), I just kept playing.
Don't get me wrong, no question, it is ugly. I chased holes all over the place and it shows. I think the thin (.035") mig wire and back gassing made a huge difference. It's not pretty but it's air tight... here it is:

 

[dmfa200]

You're doing great for a beginner.
Welding is a lot tougher than it looks.
It makes me laugh when I hear someone who is not a welder say, "welding is easy" or "I know how to weld".
Practice, practice, practice, and some helpful tips from "welders" will help develop your skills.
When I say welders, I mean as many as you come in contact with. Not all welders weld using the same techniques. You just have to find out what works best for you.
When I was doing weld inspection I could usually tell who's welds they belong to just by their appearance.
I haven't heard anything from greenmonti, or tigmaster lately.
I hope they are still around here somewhere.
They would be very helpful in giving advice too. Those guys are obviously very talented welders.
Don't worry about asking too many questions. I love to share what I know.
Again if you have any questions on how to weld something ask away.

 

[dmfa200]

Another tip.
When welding something that is a thin part, like the shielding cup you made. What I suggest to you, is waiting until you have finished welding, then cup the cup to size. I see that your cup is severely distorted from the heat.
If you left the cup intact, welded, then cut it down to size, it would not have warped nearly as much.
You lost a lot of the cups rigidity when you cut off the flanged end of the cup.
An example of this is, if we had to add a small section of pipe, in a line, say 3" or 4" piece, we would weld a long piece in and cut it to the 3" to 4" after welding.
If you try to weld a short piece in like that it will be egg shaped by the time your done.
You can see a perfect example of this in my pictures of the 1/2" tube welded in the cup.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

You're doing great for a beginner.
Welding is a lot tougher than it looks.
It makes me laugh when I hear someone who is not a welder say, "welding is easy" or "I know how to weld".
Practice, practice, practice, and some helpful tips from "welders" will help develop your skills.
When I say welders, I mean as many as you come in contact with. Not all welders weld using the same techniques. You just have to find out what works best for you.
When I was doing weld inspection I could usually tell who's welds they belong to just by their appearance.
I haven't heard anything from greenmonti, or tigmaster lately.
I hope they are still around here somewhere.
They would be very helpful in giving advice too. Those guys are obviously very talented welders.
Don't worry about asking too many questions. I love to share what I know.
Again if you have any questions on how to weld something ask away.

Thanks.
I know I have a long way to go but I'm enjoying the practice.

I've learned that I can do OK, if I have everything positioned just right; moving right to left, a place to rest & steady my hand with the torch, no obstacles, etc. But I find myself in certain situations where it just seems there is no room to work. Working around the tube in this purge was a pain.

All that said, I'm still fascinated by moving the puddle around. As thin as this material was, as soon as the puddle appeared, I had to move the torch.

Ed

 

[BrewBeemer]

All that said, I'm still fascinated by moving the puddle around. As thin as this material was, as soon as the puddle appeared, I had to move the torch.
Ed

Join the world of creating black holes or bottom drop outs.

I saved a 72 BSA gas tank chasing many cracks along the hard edges, seventeen inches total when done having the owner over my head trying to look thru my hood while i'm welding.
PITA owner, paper thin metal plus gas fumes to hoot at you the joys.

 

[dmfa200]

Being comfortable while welding is key to making a good weld.
The moment you start to feel uncomfortable, you need to stop, and reposition yourself or the work.
If your struggling, or you feel uncomfortable don't try to force it. You'll only start screwing up. Stop, and get yourself comfortable, or reposition your work.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Being comfortable while welding is key to making a good weld.
The moment you start to feel uncomfortable, you need to stop, and reposition yourself or the work.
If your struggling, or you feel uncomfortable don't try to force it. You'll only start screwing up. Stop, and get yourself comfortable, or reposition your work.

Fine and dandy, i've had spinal surgeries gone bad, no comfortable position can be found 24/7. A quick Mig on an emergency repair has to do for now at best. Mr. Miller the tig is a dust collector for a long while. Thank goodness owner owned bottles no lease.

You forgot to mention, do not Tig with a Gin hangover or DT's.

 

[dmfa200]

BrewBeemer,
Sorry to hear that. I can understand how frustrating that is.
As far as hang-overs, I can recall doing some production welding years ago while severely hung-over. Thank God the bathroom was near our work area or I would have spewed all over over the place!

 

[BrewBeemer]

I believe this thread could be the seed of the "Thread Killa"

Zinc fumes from burning plated iron is right up there.

I know a corny is .027" thick and a PITA to weld if you haven't played with SS much.
I did watch one welder at the Livermore Rad Lab while working there, he tigged tin foil as well Coke can butted bodies top half to bottom half not the thicker bottoms without problems. This person was a human machine with pure talent.
After pulling some strings there back in 92 I was able to strike a rock bottom cash deal to purchase a Miller 350 Synchrowave, I had to buy it never looked back.