Gose vs Berliner Weisse - Which to brew / suggestions?

[off7spring]

Hi everyone!

I've been brewing for almost 3 years now (currently on an all grain setup) and will be making beer for my upcoming wedding. I was going to try either a Berliner Weisse or a Gose since my fiance likes those styles. The only thing is, I've never brewed either before and in doing some reading, I'm a little confused as to the overall souring.

I was planning on using the BYO recipe as a base and possibly racking the beer onto raspberry puree or tart cherry juice for a secondary to give it some fruity flavor.

My question is, what's the best way to sour the beer I'll be making? Kettle sour? Boil and only pitch lacto then reboil and pitch yeast? Or just use aciduated malt like the BYO recipe suggests. I'm just worried that won't give it the sour profile I'm trying to achieve.

Anyway, any beginners advice for a first time Gose/Berliner Weisse brewer would be much appreciated. Even a basic recipe would be awesome. I'm open to either style, I've just read more about Gose's online.

Thanks!

 

[TheMadKing]

Hi everyone!

I've been brewing for almost 3 years now (currently on an all grain setup) and will be making beer for my upcoming wedding. I was going to try either a Berliner Weisse or a Gose since my fiance likes those styles. The only thing is, I've never brewed either before and in doing some reading, I'm a little confused as to the overall souring.

I was planning on using the BYO recipe as a base and possibly racking the beer onto raspberry puree or tart cherry juice for a secondary to give it some fruity flavor.

My question is, what's the best way to sour the beer I'll be making? Kettle sour? Boil and only pitch lacto then reboil and pitch yeast? Or just use aciduated malt like the BYO recipe suggests. I'm just worried that won't give it the sour profile I'm trying to achieve.

Anyway, any beginners advice for a first time Gose/Berliner Weisse brewer would be much appreciated. Even a basic recipe would be awesome. I'm open to either style, I've just read more about Gose's online.

Thanks!

I would go with a kettle sour. It's quick and easy, then you can just boil it again to kill the bugs.

So you would mash and lauter as normal, but instead of going straight to the boil, you'd pitch a lacto culture, let it sit for 2-3 day (covered), then proceed with your boil and yeast pitch as normal.

 

[off7spring]

Thanks! So basically mash then let it sit in my fermemtation chamber as if it was fermenting at some high temp to encourage the lacto to grow?

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks! So basically mash then let it sit in my fermemtation chamber as if it was fermenting at some high temp to encourage the lacto to grow?

No, mash and lauter into your boil kettle and pitch the lacto directly into your boil kettle. Then just let that sit at room temp (or higher.. mid 80's works well) for a couple days. That way you don't have to transfer it around, you just turn on the flame and go to town :rockin:

 

[hanuswalrus]

I recommend Omega Yeast Labs Lactobacillus blend. It's a beast and can easily sour your wort at lower temps like 70-90F. Works well every time I've used it.

As for the recipe, 50/50 pilsner and wheat is an easy, go-to grain bill for beers like this. If you do use the Omega Lacto, be sure to not add any hops until the lacto has done it's thing.

 

[off7spring]

Thanks. Any specific water profile I should be targeting? I found this one looking around for some recipes:

Profile: Wayland - Lambic

Calcium(Ca): 31.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 6.2 ppm
Sodium(Na): 20.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 36.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 25.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 61.5 ppm

What's your stance on purging the headspace with CO2 before putting the lid on the kettle? Does it make a huge difference?

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks. Any specific water profile I should be targeting? I found this one looking around for some recipes:

Profile: Wayland - Lambic

Calcium(Ca): 31.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 6.2 ppm
Sodium(Na): 20.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 36.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 25.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 61.5 ppm

What's your stance on purging the headspace with CO2 before putting the lid on the kettle? Does it make a huge difference?

That water profile looks good to me. I would go for a balanced profile which that one mostly is.

As far as purging the headspace, I tend to think that it's a waste of CO2 unless your boil kettle is airtight (it isn't).

Graham's law (gas diffusion) shows that CO2 NEVER forms a "blanket", and therefore will immediately be diluted by the air in the headspace of your pot. You might be able to significantly reduce the air in the headspace at first, but the fact that your boil kettle was never meant to be air tight (even with saran wrap over the top) means that more air will get in over the 24-48 hour souring period and there will always be oxygen in your headspace.

Without testing it with an O2 meter, however, I can't say for certain. I certainly won't HURT to purge with CO2, but I strongly suspect that it does little to keep oxygen away.

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks. Any specific water profile I should be targeting? I found this one looking around for some recipes:

Profile: Wayland - Lambic

Calcium(Ca): 31.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 6.2 ppm
Sodium(Na): 20.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 36.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 25.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 61.5 ppm

What's your stance on purging the headspace with CO2 before putting the lid on the kettle? Does it make a huge difference?

So I talked over the oxygen issue with a friend of mine who is a pro-brewer, and he makes a killer Berliner Weisse.

He eliminates oxygen in his homebrew system by using a carbonation stone and keeping CO2 bubbling through the beer while its souring. (He takes his pH to 3.4 btw) This actually WILL form a CO2 "blanket" because the CO2 will reach saturation within the liquid and begin to off-gas at a rate higher than the gas can diffuse. After talking to him, I'm going to go buy a carb stone and make a Berliner Weisse next myself!

Another good tip that I got was to use 2 oz of aged hops (3 IBU). This eliminated the bitterness and adds complexity. The variety of hops doesn't really matter if they are well aged.

 

[off7spring]

So I talked over the oxygen issue with a friend of mine who is a pro-brewer, and he makes a killer Berliner Weisse.

He eliminates oxygen in his homebrew system by using a carbonation stone and keeping CO2 bubbling through the beer while its souring. (He takes his pH to 3.4 btw) This actually WILL form a CO2 "blanket" because the CO2 will reach saturation within the liquid and begin to off-gas at a rate higher than the gas can diffuse. After talking to him, I'm going to go buy a carb stone and make a Berliner Weisse next myself!

Another good tip that I got was to use 2 oz of aged hops (3 IBU). This eliminated the bitterness and adds complexity. The variety of hops doesn't really matter if they are well aged.

Very interesting! I'll have to set some hops aside and use them in my next gose. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[off7spring]

Ok so I mashed my gose last night. Pitched my vial of wlp672 lacto around midnight and the temp in my garage has been steady at 88 since then. Just taste it and it doesn't taste remotely sour. Tastes kind of like creamed corn which has me a little worried. How long does the lacto take to start spirit?