Good taste at kegging, but not after aging and drinkin...

[Nyxator]

I had this exact problem, with harsh bitter tasting beer after it was kegged. I would transfer the beer from secondary and it would be great, then as soon as I drank some from the keg a couple weeks later, it was horrible.

I found the problem to be dirty poppets in the beer line tank plug. I bought my keg from a questionable LHBS and I could not get the poppets out of the plugs to save my life, so I just soaked them as is, and that turned out to be a bad idea.

Try this as an experiment. Taste the beer out of the keg by popping off the top and ladling out some beer. Then taste it by pouring it normally. Is there a difference? At least that will eliminate some possibilities. I found out my beer in the keg still tasted great, and completely different than the stuff coming out of the tap.

I do take my kegs apart and clean them completely after every brew. I'm willing to bet it's your poppets. If it is, take them out of the tank plug, and boil them in a pan. That helped, but didn't fix my problem. It only went away when I replaced my bad poppets.

Hope this helps.

 

[zinger084]

I had this exact problem, with harsh bitter tasting beer after it was kegged. I would transfer the beer from secondary and it would be great, then as soon as I drank some from the keg a couple weeks later, it was horrible.

I found the problem to be dirty poppets in the beer line tank plug. I bought my keg from a questionable LHBS and I could not get the poppets out of the plugs to save my life, so I just soaked them as is, and that turned out to be a bad idea.

Try this as an experiment. Taste the beer out of the keg by popping off the top and ladling out some beer. Then taste it by pouring it normally. Is there a difference? At least that will eliminate some possibilities. I found out my beer in the keg still tasted great, and completely different than the stuff coming out of the tap.

I do take my kegs apart and clean them completely after every brew. I'm willing to bet it's your poppets. If it is, take them out of the tank plug, and boil them in a pan. That helped, but didn't fix my problem. It only went away when I replaced my bad poppets.

Hope this helps.

So are you talking about the poppet valve in the lid of the keg? - because I am not sure what you mean by the beer line tank plug. Once I figure out what this elusive piece is, I am going to see if they are clean or not.

EDIT: I think it's the valve at the top where you connect the beer line coupling?

I need to get that deep well socket ASAP...

 

[Synovia]

Yes, I agree, there is a lot more O2 in kegs but if the beer is already at its saturation point with gas (CO2 in this case from fermentation), there really isn't any way that the O2 sitting on top of the beer would dissolve into the beer. With the pressure in the keg building from the yeast eating the priming sugar, the beer would be super saturated with CO2 at STP.

When you take a beer, at say 60 degrees (cellar temperature) and put it in a keg fridge, at say, 38 degrees, it is going to absorb almost every little bit of gas in it. Even the oxygen. The saturation point of a keg at 38 degrees is a lot different from that at 60.

 

[Nyxator]

The tank plug is this guy:

The poppet valve inside it is what I'm talking about:

Be sure to taste the beer inside the keg by ladling some out and compare it to what comes out of the tap.

 

[zinger084]

When you take a beer, at say 60 degrees (cellar temperature) and put it in a keg fridge, at say, 38 degrees, it is going to absorb almost every little bit of gas in it. Even the oxygen. The saturation point of a keg at 38 degrees is a lot different from that at 60.

True. And when I place it in the kegerator to chill it to 45F, I hook up the CO2 and cycle the poppet a few times anyways... so I guess I'm already doing this.

 

[zinger084]

The tank plug is this guy:

The poppet valve inside it is what I'm talking about:

Be sure to taste the beer inside the keg by ladling some out and compare it to what comes out of the tap.

Looks like this is going to be the first thing I try in addition to changing over to Distilled Water to use.

Anyone know what size socket the plug valve takes to remove?

 

[remilard]

I have historically broken the kegs down for cleaning each time. I can break a keg down and reassemble it in about a minute, if I am drinking beer at the same time.

For a while I have been using a CIP keg cleaner, pumping PBW through the opening and both dip tubes continuously. These kegs always have very clean post assemblies so I might start breaking them down less frequently.

As for socket sizes, there are two sizes ball locks use which I can remember off the top of my head (might be 5/8 and 7/8). It is usually about the same price to buy a deep socket set as it is to buy individuals of both sizes. This assumes you have a mix of the two sizes like I do, you might have all of one.

Either way you can check with a regular socket to see which fits before you go out to buy the deep socket.

 

[Yooper]

I have THREE different sizes! I have some that are 11/16", and some are 7/8" and one is the size that I can't remember off the top of my head, but I hauled my keg to the hardware store to get the right one!

I also have two kegs that are a 12 point star.

If you've NEVER broken down the keg, I bet that's where the flavor is coming from. There are o-rings inside there, too, that need to be checked and cleaned, as well as the poppit itself. But you have described oxidation symptoms, too.

One thing to keep in mind that it's not either/or. You can still prime as usual, but use some co2 to fill the headspace and purge a few times. In fact, some of my kegs don't even seal well without a shot of co2. So, even if I'm priming the keg, I use some co2 to purge the headspace and seat the lid better.

 

[zinger084]

I have THREE different sizes! I have some that are 11/16", and some are 7/8" and one is the size that I can't remember off the top of my head, but I hauled my keg to the hardware store to get the right one!

I also have two kegs that are a 12 point star.

If you've NEVER broken down the keg, I bet that's where the flavor is coming from. There are o-rings inside there, too, that need to be checked and cleaned, as well as the poppit itself. But you have described oxidation symptoms, too.

One thing to keep in mind that it's not either/or. You can still prime as usual, but use some co2 to fill the headspace and purge a few times. In fact, some of my kegs don't even seal well without a shot of co2. So, even if I'm priming the keg, I use some co2 to purge the headspace and seat the lid better.

I am going to continue priming and start using CO2 to clear headspace then. Since the beer tastes good going into the keg, if it is oxidizing, I guess it has to be while the O2 is sitting on top of the beer in the keg.

I also have a 12-point star plug on a few of my kegs.

No, they have never been apart, so that is probably a good start to go ahead and pull them apart. I just really want to find out what's happening here. Guess I better start CO2'ing and ripping apart plugs tonight.

 

[azscoob]

the post sizes are usually 7/8" or 11/16" and sometimes that funky 12 point size. I tear down my kegs every time as well, mostly to clean/sanitize and inspect for potential issues before they grow into big problems.

 

[Yooper]

One more tip- when you take them apart, do it one at a time. Put the stuff that comes out of the "in" side on one side of your sink, and the "out" stuff on the other. They look the same, but they are not! If you do more than one keg, you'll be likely to mix up a part or two, and then you'll have so many problems you'll hate me for telling you to take them apart! The "out" posts and the "in" posts are ever so slightly different, too, and they are not interchangeable.

So, I put the "out" stuff in a different bowl than the "in" parts, and just lay the long diptube on the counter next to the "out" parts. It sounds silly, but trust me on this!

 

[zinger084]

One more tip- when you take them apart, do it one at a time. Put the stuff that comes out of the "in" side on one side of your sink, and the "out" stuff on the other. They look the same, but they are not! If you do more than one keg, you'll be likely to mix up a part or two, and then you'll have so many problems you'll hate me for telling you to take them apart! The "out" posts and the "in" posts are ever so slightly different, too, and they are not interchangeable.

So, I put the "out" stuff in a different bowl than the "in" parts, and just lay the long diptube on the counter next to the "out" parts. It sounds silly, but trust me on this!

Copy that. Sounds like a good idea. I am hoping this is my problem and not the water I have been using, although dfohio said that this was his problem exactly.

 

[DKershner]

So, I put the "out" stuff in a different bowl than the "in" parts, and just lay the long diptube on the counter next to the "out" parts. It sounds silly, but trust me on this!

I conserve a bit more water/sanitizer than Yooper and just do one post at a time in the same bowl...

Good advice though! Don't get em mixed up, attaching a gas QD to a liquid post is very annoying.

 

[Nyxator]

This is kind of reviving a dead topic, but I'm curious if my (or anyone else's) suggestion solved the OP's problem. Any news, zinger?

 

[zinger084]

The beer is next on deck. I did check the plug valves on one other keg and they were clean. I shot CO2 in the top of the one that's on deck to clear it of oxygen, so we will see what the problem is here shortly. I am probably about a week away from tapping this and will keep updating as we go. I still need to take the top off and see if ladling it out into a glass yields different results.

 

[wrestler63]

Not sure......I would try a batch age it in a secondary instead of the keg. Force carb it instead of using the sugar. Just leave it at 10 psi for a week to two weeks and see if there is a difference. I never use priming solution whe I have CO2

+1 on this....... why mess with the sugar when C02 is available. I do 10g batches and usually bottle half and keg half. When I rack to keg I immediately purge any O2 then condition at 15 psi for 5-7 days and then drink it up.
Good luck

 

[zinger084]

Update - I am still having this problem. Kegs are clean. Poppets are clean. Water is natural spring water. I blanketed the top airspace with CO2. This was my last extract batch with spring water before moving to a filtered home water setup.

I am not sure if it's good practice, but I put everything, including the trub, in the fermenter. Is this bad practice? Like I said, it tastes very good at transfer from the secondary to the keg, but not from the keg. Ideas?

Also, I might try and stop using priming sugar and just force carb with CO2 for a week. Ideas?

 

[joety]

I find a hard time believing it is the priming sugar. What are you using to clean the kegs before sanitizing? I soured a couple beers (not on purpose) and had an infection in a secondary that took the flavor out of another batch before I realized that sanitizing is not the end all if you don't start with clean surfaces in all your containers. An overnight soak in a PBW solution usually does the trick for any container. I don't think just using a brush and hand cleaning does the trick. If there are still bits of stuff stuck inside the keg, Star San will only temporarily sanitize the surface. Eventually some bugs can make their way back out from the insides of the dirt after soaking in beer for a few days.

 

[AiredAle]

I think one contributor to your problem is you are aging your beers far too long. If you do things right, you should be able to drink an ale with a gravity less than 1.055 two to three weeks after boiling. I am convinced that many homebrewers are overaging their low to moderate OG beers.

The last beer I made was an American pale ale (OG = 52, about 35 IBUs) that I brewed on Dec 28, racked into a corny keg and carbed to 2.0 volumes of CO2 on January 5, transfered to my keg freezer and started drinking it on January 9. The beer was still slightly cloudy but tasted great. This was less than 2 weeks from grain to glass. Two weeks later it still tastes great. I took it to my local homebrew club meeting this Tuesday, and got good reviews of it.

I don't normally rush it that fast, but I wanted to push the timeline to an extreme to see what it would be like in that short a time. I would suggest you try leaving your beer in primary for 2 weeks, then rack straight to a keg, purge the air with CO2, carb it up, cold crash it if you can in a fridge or outside depending on you climate, then put it in your serving fridge a week after cold crashing started. I think you'll be pleased at how it tastes.

 

[user 22118]

I would look into your water source, or over aging. I find that it should carb at room temp in two weeks and after about a month, they should be perfect to taste. If you are naturally carbing your kegs, then do be sure to seat the lid and purge the headspace O2, but otherwise, the remaining O2 should be consumed by the yeast.

Something that I find myself doing as of late is to rinse my kegs, boil all of the pieces and then add boiling water inside the keg and shake it with the lid on, but no posts attached. This is sure to kill off anything attempting to live in there that sanitizer might miss. Then I use my Idophor sanitizer and shake it all around. Then I make sure (although it is no rinse) to remove all remnants of the Idophor and then again with the boiling water. I do this to ease my mind, to kill everything and to make sure that in the end, I have a completely broken down and cleaned keg.

To that end, it really sounds to me that you just don't like beer. Send it to me, I will be sure to drink it up for you at no expense.

 

[OMJ]

Have you tried getting a new racking can and siphon tubing? If could be happening during the racking process.

 

[NoisufnoC]

I'm most interested in the GLBC Christmas Ale clone recipe...

 

[sithspitt]

are you purging the air out of the keg?

+1 on that

 

[jspence1]

Are you using tap water when you boil your priming sugar? I don't know if that little amount of water(chloramines?) will give you off flavors or not. But beers I brewed before I filtered my water turned out nasty.

You might want to consider changing sanitizers for a batch, maybe you have a critter that's immune to what your using.

 

[zinger084]

I find a hard time believing it is the priming sugar. What are you using to clean the kegs before sanitizing? I soured a couple beers (not on purpose) and had an infection in a secondary that took the flavor out of another batch before I realized that sanitizing is not the end all if you don't start with clean surfaces in all your containers. An overnight soak in a PBW solution usually does the trick for any container. I don't think just using a brush and hand cleaning does the trick. If there are still bits of stuff stuck inside the keg, Star San will only temporarily sanitize the surface. Eventually some bugs can make their way back out from the insides of the dirt after soaking in beer for a few days.

I am using the brewclean one step sanitizer. I think a lot of people use this and I haven't heard of many problems.

 

[zinger084]

I think one contributor to your problem is you are aging your beers far too long. If you do things right, you should be able to drink an ale with a gravity less than 1.055 two to three weeks after boiling. I am convinced that many homebrewers are overaging their low to moderate OG beers.

The last beer I made was an American pale ale (OG = 52, about 35 IBUs) that I brewed on Dec 28, racked into a corny keg and carbed to 2.0 volumes of CO2 on January 5, transfered to my keg freezer and started drinking it on January 9. The beer was still slightly cloudy but tasted great. This was less than 2 weeks from grain to glass. Two weeks later it still tastes great. I took it to my local homebrew club meeting this Tuesday, and got good reviews of it.

I don't normally rush it that fast, but I wanted to push the timeline to an extreme to see what it would be like in that short a time. I would suggest you try leaving your beer in primary for 2 weeks, then rack straight to a keg, purge the air with CO2, carb it up, cold crash it if you can in a fridge or outside depending on you climate, then put it in your serving fridge a week after cold crashing started. I think you'll be pleased at how it tastes.

My latest beer I just transferred to the secondary will be going into the keg this weekend. I am going to test out this theory and see if it could be the case. I always thought that you aged them for 6-8 weeks though for the best, non-green taste...

 

[zinger084]

I would look into your water source, or over aging. I find that it should carb at room temp in two weeks and after about a month, they should be perfect to taste. If you are naturally carbing your kegs, then do be sure to seat the lid and purge the headspace O2, but otherwise, the remaining O2 should be consumed by the yeast.

Something that I find myself doing as of late is to rinse my kegs, boil all of the pieces and then add boiling water inside the keg and shake it with the lid on, but no posts attached. This is sure to kill off anything attempting to live in there that sanitizer might miss. Then I use my Idophor sanitizer and shake it all around. Then I make sure (although it is no rinse) to remove all remnants of the Idophor and then again with the boiling water. I do this to ease my mind, to kill everything and to make sure that in the end, I have a completely broken down and cleaned keg.

To that end, it really sounds to me that you just don't like beer. Send it to me, I will be sure to drink it up for you at no expense.

I love beer more than you can imagine, LOL. We are all members of the same pitfall here...

I will try cleaning the kegs a little better next time. I am purging the headspace of O2 when kegging. I think on this latest batch, I am going to force carb with no priming sugar...

 

[zinger084]

Have you tried getting a new racking can and siphon tubing? If could be happening during the racking process.

I use an auto siphon that I take apart and clean every time. I don't think it is this, but it could be happening during the racking process...

 

[zinger084]

I'm most interested in the GLBC Christmas Ale clone recipe...

Lbs. Type
1.00 GR127B Cara Red 20
0.75 GR32B Crystal 60 (Muntons)
0.25 GR30B Chocolate Malt (Muntons)
2.00 Clover Honey
6.00 Briess DME Pilsen

Weight (oz) Hop AA AAU Boil Time Utilization IBU
1 Nugget / 12.8/ 12.8/ 20/ 0.08/ 15.4
1 Spalt / 1.5/ 1.5/ 2/ 0.011/ 0.3
1 Galena / 14.1/14.1/ 60/ 0.133/ 28

US-05.

Add cinnamon and nutmeg extract at secondary...

 

[zinger084]

Are you using tap water when you boil your priming sugar? I don't know if that little amount of water(chloramines?) will give you off flavors or not. But beers I brewed before I filtered my water turned out nasty.

You might want to consider changing sanitizers for a batch, maybe you have a critter that's immune to what your using.

I am using spring water when I boil for priming. My first beer with home filtered water is on deck next, so we will see if that's the problem.

I really think it's my priming sugar or water...