Glycol Chiller without Glycol?

[sicktght311]

Currently finishing up the usual DIY Glycol Chiller out of a 5000btu air conditioner build. Everything went smooth and i'm just waiting for the spray foam to cure BUT i'd really really like to brew this week. I wont be able to get my Glycol gallons until this weekend, and we're having people over in a few weeks so i'd like to turn my Cream Ale around by then.

Anything wrong with running my glycol chiller with just water during normal fermentation to control temps? I typically use US05 at 66 degrees for this cream ale, and my basement is fluctuating between 62 and 66 so taking into account exothermic fermentation temps i dont want this to run too hot. Any negatives by putting water in the glycol cooler, setting my Glycol Chiller temp to like 50, and running it during fermentation until i can get my glycol? I figure once active fermentation is over i'll shut it down, drain and refill with Distilled water and glycol mix 2:1 ratio, and then it should be ready for when its time to cold crash.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

I would expect and keep an eye out for ice developing around your coils with just distilled water, maybe add cheap vodka to it to lower your freezing temps and just clean it when you get your glycol. I don't have one of these yet but intend on building one next month so my opinion is pretty limited.

 

[Dland]

I agree that adding something with alcohol or anti freeze in short run would probably help. If you are running an internal coil in fermentor, it is probably best to keep it food safe or at least non-toxic. Even plumber's or RV antifreeze would do the trick I guess.

My DYI cooler has 5 parts water to 2 glycol, and it works fine.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

since you wont be running it at full throttle i dont know that this will cause an issue, if you set your temp controller for the water at say 40 instead of 28 then you should run no risk of freezing things up. you may get a little ice around the evaporator while its cooling the water but that wont matter or effect the coil in your fermenter. yes rv antifreeze would be a good substitute that you can pick up just about anywhere for 5 or 6 bucks a gallon if you are concerned about it.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Not a great long term solution but a decent amount of dissolved table salt will let you get those temps down as well

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

You will also need a pump to keep the liquid moving around internally, otherwise icing will occur rather quickly. I think when I tested mine with water, I was seeing <10F liquid at the fins. With no movement, they were starting to ice up in about 5 minutes.

 

[sicktght311]

yes rv antifreeze would be a good substitute that you can pick up just about anywhere for 5 or 6 bucks a gallon if you are concerned about it.

I thought RV antifreeze is no bueno compared to food grade USP glycol when it comes to immersed coil glycol fermenter systems

You will also need a pump to keep the liquid moving around internally, otherwise icing will occur rather quickly. .

yeah I have a fountain pump in the bottom that moves the water around and over the coils

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

I thought RV antifreeze is no bueno compared to food grade USP glycol when it comes to immersed coil glycol fermenter systems

You can use it but you must make sure it avoids the beer 100% if you accidently get a splash of glycol in your beer it's not the end of the world even though not ideal with RV antifreeze it's ruined

 

[Ridenour64]

I’m using a DIY setup currently. You should be ok with just water temporarily as mentioned above if you keep it at like 40, maybe a little higher. I’m using RV antifreeze currently, but plan to switch to the real stuff soon. I also use a wave maker to stir everything around.

 

[Vale71]

Not a great long term solution but a decent amount of dissolved table salt will let you get those temps down as well

Never do that unless your coil/jacket and everything the solution will come in contact with is is made of plastic. A concentrated salt solution will cause corrosion in stainless steel.

 

[sicktght311]

Well the chiller worked fine with water, so i'm sure it COULD work, however i developed a leak in the cooler, so its back to the drawing board anyway lol. Going to pick up a new cooler tonight, and hope this one works better

 

[sicktght311]

You can use it but you must make sure it avoids the beer 100% if you accidently get a splash of glycol in your beer it's not the end of the world even though not ideal with RV antifreeze it's ruined

See this is where it all gets confusing. USP Food Grade glycol is supposed to be completely food safe. In fact its an additive in most foods. So ok, fine, if you have a tiny leak in your fittings, and a few drops end up in your beer, not the end of the world.

RV Antifreeze is also propylene glycol, and considered non toxic as a whole, so even if it has additives, its considered non toxic unless you like go ahead and drink a glass of it. Heck most people add it to their pool plumbing in the winter to keep the pipes from freezing, and then that gets flushed into the pool in the spring, so its in your pool, just diluted. So why is USP Propylene Glycol, and RV Propylene Glycol, not on the same level when it comes to a system that is assumed to not be leaking gallons of it into your beer. At the worst case scenario we're talking about drops at most

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

See this is where it all gets confusing. USP Food Grade glycol is supposed to be completely food safe. In fact its an additive in most foods. So ok, fine, if you have a tiny leak in your fittings, and a few drops end up in your beer, not the end of the world.

RV Antifreeze is also propylene glycol, and considered non toxic as a whole, so even if it has additives, its considered non toxic unless you like go ahead and drink a glass of it. Heck most people add it to their pool plumbing in the winter to keep the pipes from freezing, and then that gets flushed into the pool in the spring, so its in your pool, just diluted. So why is USP Propylene Glycol, and RV Propylene Glycol, not on the same level when it comes to a system that is assumed to not be leaking gallons of it into your beer. At the worst case scenario we're talking about drops at most

imo its just so they can charge more for it. i am sure there is more to it then that but i got the usp food grade stuff for mine anyway. yes there is no reason why you should get any of it in your beer unless there is a problem or an accident or whatever else. i would only use the rv stuff as a short term solution and get the food grade stuff as a permanent solution. i have been using mine for several months and probably a dozen or so batches now and its great and i have yet to ever get any in my beer or even closet to getting it in my beer. if i ran into an issue where i needed to get something quick i wouldnt be afraid to grab some rv antifreeze and run it until i got the food grade stuff.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

USP testing and certification costs money to label as such, whereas RV antifreeze, to my knowledge, does not have USP certification. That likely makes up the large difference in the price.

 

[Brooothru]

See this is where it all gets confusing. USP Food Grade glycol is supposed to be completely food safe. In fact its an additive in most foods. So ok, fine, if you have a tiny leak in your fittings, and a few drops end up in your beer, not the end of the world.

RV Antifreeze is also propylene glycol, and considered non toxic as a whole, so even if it has additives, its considered non toxic unless you like go ahead and drink a glass of it. Heck most people add it to their pool plumbing in the winter to keep the pipes from freezing, and then that gets flushed into the pool in the spring, so its in your pool, just diluted. So why is USP Propylene Glycol, and RV Propylene Glycol, not on the same level when it comes to a system that is assumed to not be leaking gallons of it into your beer. At the worst case scenario we're talking about drops at most

RV antifreeze contains ethyl alcohol and a number of rust inhibitors, the concentrations of which are not considered toxic to humans at the assumed consumption levels (i.e., two or three gallons run through your fresh water tanks and supply lines to displace water in faucets, toilets, etc). Come Springtime, there's a fair amount of tank and supply line cleaning and flushing to do before hitting the road. It has a distinctive anti-freeze smell and is color coded according to its glycol concentration and protective temperature range. The more glycol, the more expensive. I doubt that you'd ever drink it accidentally.

My understanding is it is "safe" to the extent that it won't kill you, but it is definitely not meant for human consumption. Better off buying 100% Food Grade glycol.

Brooo Brother

 

[Beholder]

I typically set glycol chiller to 10 degrees lower than fermentation temp to avoid large temperature swings - never really understood the 28 set and forget that some do.

If you set it to 50, should be fine with water, but looks like in the meantime you’ll get your glycol around the same time as a non leaking cooler.

 

[sicktght311]

Final update. Got my new cooler put in yesterday to replace the leaking one, and everything was fine with zero issues with icing when its purely h20. Set the controller to 45 with a 5 degree differential. AC shut off at 45 and the temp settled around 42. Didnt turn back on for a couple hours at least. Let it go overnight and woke up this morning and checked everything and see no icing or issues. Draining the cooler tonight and replacing with 4gallons Distilled water, 2 gallons USP Glycol. Thanks for everyone's help. Looks like the leaking cooler made the issue of running this with only water no longer necessary, since i had to push off my brew day, but good to know if anyone wants to just cool fermentation temps and is short on glycol, you can get away with water only

 

[missiletech]

I sprayed my AC unit's heat exchanger with plastidip to try to prevent/slow any galvanic corrosion... it greatly affected ice build up and I was able to get colder without glycol. I have a small pond pump in the cooler that recirculates non stop and a larger sub pump for the fermenter.

I took a 1BBL ferment down to cold crash temps one year thinking I'd just be wasting electricity and it'd run constantly. I came out that evening a the whole plastic conical (45 gal) and fluid lines were sweating condensation. I couldn't believe it.