Glad no one was around to get hit with any of the flying glass it looks like it went all over. Also took me a while to see I too was looking at wall setup. Very nice... One other possibility is that the carboy develop some stress fractures that was unnoticeable. I drop enough things that don't break which is why I use only buckets or Speidel for brewing. The only glass I use is the Hydrometer and have gone through a few.
Glass carboy explosion
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GHBWNY
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We could easily get into the carboy vs. bucket debate, but relative to this mishap, it simply makes me wonder why anyone would put such a large volume of highly-pressurized liquid into such a [relatively] large, thin glass container (cheaper ones being made thinner or with inconsistent thicknesses). It would seem that a container this large under pressure would demand a certain amount of elasticity to be functional and safe. However, elasticity is not a selling feature for glass, much less this glass under these conditions. If putting this much liquid under pressure into large glass vessels were a smart and equitable thing to do, why do only homebrewers do it? It is apparent over and over again that there is a point at which a glass vessel this large is not safe under pressure (not to mention empty and wet). "My Carboy Shattered" is a perpetual topic of discussion here on HBT that perpetually begs the question, "Why?" Is the answer found in the vessel itself or the use of it? Is it a matter of poor-quality construction, a mishandling accident or something else that leads to a potentially dangerous event? Or is the use of a glass carboy simply a game of Russian-roulette with physics.
JustLooking
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That's silly. I don't think anyone is deliberately "highly" pressurizing a glass carboy. In almost every case of failure, there can be some type of user mistake to account for it. Like a lot of things in life, there a risk. You have to assess your own level of competence (and luck) and decide if that risk is one you're willing to take.
Blue_State
Well-Known Member
Glass Carboys do look sexier then a bucket in the corner.
MaddBaggins
cervisiam vitae
I've been considering shrink wrapping the glass carboys. Keep a loose tension on the wrap and replace when it wears out. Shrink wrap is cheap, could reinforce the carboy making it stronger and could contain a broken carboy.
I still use mine all the time but only for beers that need long term fermentation and conditioning.
I still use mine all the time but only for beers that need long term fermentation and conditioning.
1977Brewer
Free Dan Hess.
Glass Carboy Explosion is my favorite jazz fusion band.
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
That would be a good question. Normally we don't have pressurized volumes of anything in glass carboys, though. Somehow, this glass container pressurized when it shouldn't have.
An easy way to avoid this problem would be to get one of those two-hole carboy caps, put the airlock or blow-off tube through one of the holes and cap the other one with a piece of aluminum foil.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
I didn't mean to infer anyone was "deliberately 'highly' pressurizing" a carboy". I think the OP's event speaks plainly to the fact that the fermentation process creates an adequate amount of its own pressure.
If your premise that "user mistake" causes "almost every case of failure", are you saying that the object (carboy) is only as safe as the user? And if it is true that any given object is only as safe as its user, then a PET carboy employed under exactly the same conditions --- complete with the "user mistake" of a clogged or undersized blow-off --- is safer because of the user? Hmm...
It may have been mentioned, but is that concrete that the carboy was sitting on? Could there have been a weird temperature swing? The clogged airlock seems more plausible, but the concrete got me thinking.
Neat wine wall though.
Neat wine wall though.
That's actually not a bad idea. Get a roll of pallet wrap and run a few turns around it. You will still be able to see through it (kinda), and have something that may hold in the chunks if it breaks.
I haven't used my glass carboy that I received in my kit and might be trying to trade it in for a plastic one. Seen too many accidents happen with them and with little ones running around it just isn't worth it. Wonder how much I could sell an unused one for if the LHBS won't take it for a trade.
RandallFlag
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DISCLAIMER: I do not, in any way, discount the posts in this thread or the veracity of the OP's claim.
However, setting aside the obvious issues like glass being heavy and slippery when wet, is this a real problem or much ado about nothing? It seems if there was a high degree of risk with fermenting in standard glass carboys then why have they sold (possibly) millions of them and there isn't more substantiated "explosion" claims out there?
I'm not trying to be cynical or "that guy," I'm just trying to determine if I should all of the sudden be more concerned about the 10 glass carboys I have. If it were a real issue it seems the first thing one would learn when they start posting/reading HBT is that glass may blow up instead of NO, YOUR BEER DIDN'T FERMENT IN 48 HOURS.
However, setting aside the obvious issues like glass being heavy and slippery when wet, is this a real problem or much ado about nothing? It seems if there was a high degree of risk with fermenting in standard glass carboys then why have they sold (possibly) millions of them and there isn't more substantiated "explosion" claims out there?
I'm not trying to be cynical or "that guy," I'm just trying to determine if I should all of the sudden be more concerned about the 10 glass carboys I have. If it were a real issue it seems the first thing one would learn when they start posting/reading HBT is that glass may blow up instead of NO, YOUR BEER DIDN'T FERMENT IN 48 HOURS.
DISCLAIMER: I do not, in any way, discount the posts in this thread or the veracity of the OP's claim.
However, setting aside the obvious issues like glass being heavy and slippery when wet, is this a real problem or much ado about nothing? It seems if there was a high degree of risk with fermenting in standard glass carboys then why have they sold (possibly) millions of them and there isn't more substantiated "explosion" claims out there?
I'm not trying to be cynical or "that guy," I'm just trying to determine if I should all of the sudden be more concerned about the 10 glass carboys I have. If it were a real issue it seems the first thing one would learn when they start posting/reading HBT is that glass may blow up instead of NO, YOUR BEER DIDN'T FERMENT IN 48 HOURS.
Carboys were not designed with homebrewing in mind as far as I know.
tjpfeister
Well-Known Member
Two things to consider
1) for the fermentor to suck the blow-off liquid backwards would require a significant cooling event to occur without any positive pressure created by the beer/yeast
2) to be clear, the blow-off liquid doesn't have to be sanitizer as it will never travel backward during any real-world event regular water will do (just sanitize the blow-off tube itself)
JB_Brewing2
Well-Known Member
Had a buddy have the same thing happen to a chocolate stout in the coat closet. Lot of replacement outerwear from that one. I wear a 6 inch long scar on my right thigh from a slippery glass carboy 16 years ago. I'll never use a glass carboy again. Stainless fermentation for me thank you.
grrickar
Well-Known Member
So all of my carboys are older, 'heavy' glass. I think they are all stamped with Made in Mexico, and two of them are easily 15+ years old. I have seem some stories about thinner walled ones, so these explosions - are they the thinner variety or both?
I had an IPA blow the inside of a 3pc airlock off the top, and it proceeded to spray a basketball sized circle of hops on the ceiling. If ever I would have thought a carboy would have exploded, it would have been that day. Krausen pushed some hops in the tube, gummed it good and tight, and then the pressure went off with a bang.
I'd think that an airlock would sacrifice itself before the glass, unless the glass was already compromised in some way.
I had an IPA blow the inside of a 3pc airlock off the top, and it proceeded to spray a basketball sized circle of hops on the ceiling. If ever I would have thought a carboy would have exploded, it would have been that day. Krausen pushed some hops in the tube, gummed it good and tight, and then the pressure went off with a bang.
I'd think that an airlock would sacrifice itself before the glass, unless the glass was already compromised in some way.
Didn't have the time to read the whole thread, but if you think about surface area, the PSI required to blow apart a glass jar (carboy) is quite low.
With a weakened carboy (IE one with regular use) even only a few PSI would be enough to cause damage like what is experienced here. At one PSI a piece of the carboy 10"x10" has 100lbs of force on it.
A bung probably takes 10lbs (or more) of static force to remove it. That said the 10x10 chunk of glass will have about 200lbs or more pushing on it... Multiply that on the surface of the whole carboy and it adds up quick...
Try it with a plastic carboy, you'll see how much a few PSI will flex the plastic.
Cheers,
Max
With a weakened carboy (IE one with regular use) even only a few PSI would be enough to cause damage like what is experienced here. At one PSI a piece of the carboy 10"x10" has 100lbs of force on it.
A bung probably takes 10lbs (or more) of static force to remove it. That said the 10x10 chunk of glass will have about 200lbs or more pushing on it... Multiply that on the surface of the whole carboy and it adds up quick...
Try it with a plastic carboy, you'll see how much a few PSI will flex the plastic.
Cheers,
Max
grrickar
Well-Known Member
Sounds like we need to donate some glass to the Mythbusters team so they can get to the bottom of this
MaddBaggins
cervisiam vitae
I'm gonna procure a roll today at work.
I wouldn't think that plastic wrap would have done a substantial job of maintaining this particular explosion, but who knows.
The lesson here may be to pull out the blowoff tube periodically to make sure it isn't clogged. I'm sure others that have have a volcanic carboy eruption or bucket lid launch would concur.
The lesson here may be to pull out the blowoff tube periodically to make sure it isn't clogged. I'm sure others that have have a volcanic carboy eruption or bucket lid launch would concur.
burninator
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I liked their early stuff, before they blew up.
I have not been able to find the post I saw well over a year ago where some guy wrapped his whole carboy in silver duct tape, but I did find this one using clear duct tape and the thread discussion goes into plastic dip as well:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/trying-solve-carboy-problem-129920/index4.html#post1876610
He used clear duct tape. I assume plastic wrap works just as well, the duct tape is more of a solution that you wouldn't take on and off. But would you need to?
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
Not sure duct tape would stand up to constant contact with water/detergent. Seems like the better solution would be a heavy nylon zip-up carboy jacket. If the glass exploded, it would be contained and the jacket could be de-glassed and washed.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
Yesterday I brewed. I had considered ferming the 5 gal. hefe (WLP380 @ 64F) in my 6.5 gal glass carboy. That is, until reading the OP's post. Instead, I put it in a plastic bucket. Normally, I'd use a 3-pc airlock, but I decided to do a blowoff instead (all I had available was a length 3/8" racking tube and the base of the 3-pc airlock, which accommodated the tubing perfectly). And I'm glad I did. This AM, the blowoff was bubbling like a banshee, while at the same time, the bucket lid looked like a volcanic dome ready to explode! Obviously, the 3/8" hose, while in no way constricted, was/is barely enough to handle the activity.
I had also read the above post, so this AM, I raised the end of the blowoff tube off the bottom in the water bottle up to about an inch below the surface and WOW! it immediately released volumes more CO2! So, I fixed it in that position. Wondering now if I averted a disaster by not going ahead with the glass carboy...
After reading the OP's post and seeing the unprecedented pressure on my fermenter (unlike anything I've ever had before), I've decided to never use my glass carboy again for primary ferm. I'm ordering a Big Mouth Bubbler and double-hole lid ASAP.
Well, you won't have to worry about them blowing - the plastic big mouths don't create an airtight seal.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
Sanitized teflon tape on the threads?
Very sad to see this happened. And the mess!
The 3-piece airlocks have a star-shaped restrictor on the bottom of the center shaft. Definitely cut that off. But sometimes you just need a larger diameter tube. Still amazes me that the bung didn't pop out before the carboy exploded. But beware, these new, Chinese made carboys are not that strong. In some cases the thickness of the glass was less than that of a dime in certain areas.
I went "forward" to using buckets. Glass is only used now for long term aging, like sours.
grrickar
Well-Known Member
My older 3pc ones do not, but my newest one does. Good suggestion!
burninator
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Surprised we haven't yet explored the possibility that there was a phoenix in his carboy.
What kind of yeast were you using, OP?
What kind of yeast were you using, OP?
The problem has more to do with the way the plastic BMB are manufactured. They use a process called extrusion blow molding to make these. Extrusion blow molding is one of the cheapest processes but using this method creates material distribution problems - specifically problems with the parison formation and the container shape. Basically it's not a very accurate molding technology and any container being produced with this method is likely to have imperfections.
For most containers extrusion blow molding is okay because they are not meant to be used long term and are physically sealed. An example of this would be a plastic gallon milk jug. Even though it's not perfect it's a one time container and has a plastic seal preventing exposure to the atmosphere.
The plastic BMB uses a screw top and plastic "lid" that clamps down. On my plastic BMB the lid is not level and there is no way for me to get it completely flush. In my case, no amount of teflon tape will fix the problem.
I'm not an expert in rigid containers but even the small amount I've learned about them as a food science student makes me shake me head. The plastic BMBs are TERRIBLY designed. Northern Brewer / Midwest Supplies manufactures these things and you can tell whoever was in charge was only concerned about the bottom line. They literally used the cheapest technology available and made a really ****ty product.
So you may be thinking - if this product is so terrible why are they highly reviewed on Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies? People must like these right?
WRONG!
I posted a negative review of the plastic BMB on northern brewer and they never put up my review. I did a little more research and it turns out Northern Brewer & Midwest Supplies don't put up ANY bad reviews of ANY products. Honestly I'm not sure how this isn't illegal. I bought my plastic BMB because I looked at the reviews and saw 95% of them were overwhelmingly positive and even the "negative" reviews had 3 stars. Turns out that is because they simply wont post a review under 3 stars for their products.
I'm not sure if that practice is even legal (I think it's false advertising IMHO) and I was even more surprised since Northern Brewer has a reputation for being a "good online brew shop". I have found this to be 100% false when dealing with them.
I will never, ever buy anything from Northern Brewer / Midwest Supplies again. Their prices are among the most expensive but I thought I was paying a little extra to deal with an honest company that stood behind their products and had good customer service. In my experience they are a dishonest company that refuses to stand behind their product.
Honestly it's not the end of the world that the plastic BMB doesn't seal very well. At the time of purchase this was part of the product description for the plastic BMB:
"Your wort is protected during fermentation by innovative flared-fitting lid construction, creating an airtight seal between the lid plate and top of the fermentor."
They seemed to have removed that part since I made my complaint a few weeks ago. When I emailed a customer service rep he promised they would "make it right" but it looks like they just removed their false product description to cover their own ass.
So yeah, your mileage may vary with the plastic BMB but I regret not just grabbing a couple of fermentation buckets.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
This is worth considering. My main gripe with my ferm bucket is there's no accommodation for a larger-diameter blowoff, unless I create one that would take a grommet that would accept 1.25" diameter tubing. Until I do something else, my makeshift blowoff is presently a 3/8" tube jammed into the base of a 3-pc airlock. While it's airtight and running free, the bucket lid is still domed to the point where it looks/feels like it wants to let loose. Fortunately, I have a couple days off work so I can keep an eye on it.
If I had to place my order again I would have gone with a Better Bottle / Bubbler. They are normal carboys but made out of plastic instead of glass.
When I first started I thought I would prefer glass over plastic so I purchased 2 glass carboys. I was wrong - I definitely prefer plastic over glass
Plastic carboys are so much lighter and easier to move around with the risk of shattering.this was a belgian abbey yeast (white labs)
my floor has radiant heat under most of it. where the heat stops the fermenter stays at 66 and this brew was somewhat dormant at 66, moved it to the heated area and it went up to 72, thats when the fun started.
DISCLAIMER: I do not, in any way, discount the posts in this thread or the veracity of the OP's claim.
However, setting aside the obvious issues like glass being heavy and slippery when wet, is this a real problem or much ado about nothing? It seems if there was a high degree of risk with fermenting in standard glass carboys then why have they sold (possibly) millions of them and there isn't more substantiated "explosion" claims out there?
I'm not trying to be cynical or "that guy," I'm just trying to determine if I should all of the sudden be more concerned about the 10 glass carboys I have. If it were a real issue it seems the first thing one would learn when they start posting/reading HBT is that glass may blow up instead of NO, YOUR BEER DIDN'T FERMENT IN 48 HOURS.
all good, i appreciate the input and I AM NOT an alarmist by any means. been using that carboy for many years. My post was merely to point out that crazy SH*T can happen. the 3 pc airlock had that little "star" piece on the bottom and it definitely clogged. the bung was in very tight also, but i never expected it would fail to pop under that much pressure (I was wrong!). had i been using a larger blow off tube I am certain nothing like this would have happen. if someone took away from my post that I had suggested the beer had fully fermented in 2 days, they misread the post. the most active fermentation had passed after after 2 days but it was clearly still fermenting and the blow off tube was functioning 6 hours prior to "blast off". I consider it a fluke accident and very happy we were not shooting pool like we normally do till 5:00 AM on Thursday nights. Praise the beer gods!!
burninator
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Interesting. That is not a strain I would generally expect to spawn a phoenix.
RandallFlag
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This makes me feel better and I would tend to agree.
I honestly wasn't referring to you in my all caps thing about beer fermenting in two days.
I was mentioning it because that is one of the most commonly asked questions in the "Beginners" forum and the answer is always "No and please don't try to bottle it." And I was trying to state (apparently poorly) that if exploding carboys were a common thing then it would perhaps be mentioned as often as these magical 2 day fermentations that beginers/noobs refer to...as I used to do when I first started. So the FAQ would look like this:1. Is my beer finished after 2 days? No
2. Should I secondary? Depends
3. Will my carboy explode? Every d4mn time.
4. Must I now say "BOOM" every time I add hops? If you respect the beer gods, then yes. See link below.
Greatest HBT Thread Like Ever
Are you mad? That's the perfect strain for having a case of UPS. Unexpected Phoenix Syndrome.
"Around 1252, the monastery was destroyed by a fire; the rebuilding took around 100 years.
...
During the 15th and 16th centuries, ... In 1637, during the Thirty Years' War, the abbey was pillaged and burnt by French mercenaries.
...
In 1793, during the French Revolution, the abbey was completely burnt down by French forces...
under the direction of the Trappist monk Marie-Albert van der Cruyssen, the new monastery was constructed, and in 1935 Orval regained the rank of abbey. On 8 September 1948, the new church was consecrated.
The ruins of the medieval buildings remain on the site and are available to view."
Seriously, if that isn't begging for a phoenix I don't know what is.
wikipedia source
Very good point indeed.
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