Glass carboy explosion

[burninator]

Glass Carboy Explosion is my favorite jazz fusion band.

I liked their early stuff, before they blew up.

 

[Hello]

I'm gonna procure a roll today at work.

I have not been able to find the post I saw well over a year ago where some guy wrapped his whole carboy in silver duct tape, but I did find this one using clear duct tape and the thread discussion goes into plastic dip as well:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/trying-solve-carboy-problem-129920/index4.html#post1876610

He used clear duct tape. I assume plastic wrap works just as well, the duct tape is more of a solution that you wouldn't take on and off. But would you need to?

 

[GHBWNY]

I have not been able to find the post I saw well over a year ago where some guy wrapped his whole carboy in silver duct tape, but I did find this one using clear duct tape and the thread discussion goes into plastic dip as well:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/trying-solve-carboy-problem-129920/index4.html#post1876610

He used clear duct tape. I assume plastic wrap works just as well, the duct tape is more of a solution that you wouldn't take on and off. But would you need to?

Not sure duct tape would stand up to constant contact with water/detergent. Seems like the better solution would be a heavy nylon zip-up carboy jacket. If the glass exploded, it would be contained and the jacket could be de-glassed and washed.

 

[brewbama]

I am scared of my carboy even though I only use it as a secondary.

 

[GHBWNY]

I think another possible problem is that many (im not saying the OP did, but maybe) people put their blow off tube too deep under water. This added head pressure makes it more difficult for a clog to clear, particularly in "small" hose (which I use with no problem all the time btw). Don't believe that 6" of head pressure makes a difference? Raise your tube up during active fermentation and watch how much faster it burps.

OP - condolences for the loss of your beer

Yesterday I brewed. I had considered ferming the 5 gal. hefe (WLP380 @ 64F) in my 6.5 gal glass carboy. That is, until reading the OP's post. Instead, I put it in a plastic bucket. Normally, I'd use a 3-pc airlock, but I decided to do a blowoff instead (all I had available was a length 3/8" racking tube and the base of the 3-pc airlock, which accommodated the tubing perfectly). And I'm glad I did. This AM, the blowoff was bubbling like a banshee, while at the same time, the bucket lid looked like a volcanic dome ready to explode! Obviously, the 3/8" hose, while in no way constricted, was/is barely enough to handle the activity.

I had also read the above post, so this AM, I raised the end of the blowoff tube off the bottom in the water bottle up to about an inch below the surface and WOW! it immediately released volumes more CO2! So, I fixed it in that position. Wondering now if I averted a disaster by not going ahead with the glass carboy...

After reading the OP's post and seeing the unprecedented pressure on my fermenter (unlike anything I've ever had before), I've decided to never use my glass carboy again for primary ferm. I'm ordering a Big Mouth Bubbler and double-hole lid ASAP.

 

[aprichman]

Yesterday I brewed. I had considered ferming the 5 gal. hefe (WLP380 @ 64F) in my 6.5 gal glass carboy. That is, until reading the OP's post. Instead, I put it in a plastic bucket. Normally, I'd use a 3-pc airlock, but I decided to do a blowoff instead (all I had available was a length 3/8" racking tube and the base of the 3-pc airlock, which accommodated the tubing perfectly). And I'm glad I did. This AM, the blowoff was bubbling like a banshee, while at the same time, the bucket lid looked like a volcanic dome ready to explode! Obviously, the 3/8" hose, while in no way constricted, was/is barely enough to handle the activity.

I had also read the above post, so this AM, I raised the end of the blowoff tube off the bottom in the water bottle up to about an inch below the surface and WOW! it immediately released volumes more CO2! So, I fixed it in that position. Wondering now if I averted a disaster by not going ahead with the glass carboy...

After reading the OP's post and seeing the unprecedented pressure on my fermenter (unlike anything I've ever had before), I've decided to never use my glass carboy again for primary ferm. I'm ordering a Big Mouth Bubbler and double-hole lid ASAP.

Well, you won't have to worry about them blowing - the plastic big mouths don't create an airtight seal.

 

[GHBWNY]

Well, you won't have to worry about them blowing - the plastic big mouths don't create an airtight seal.

Sanitized teflon tape on the threads?

 

[IslandLizard]

i am heeding that suggestion and going with larger blow off tubes for sure.

yeah, just had to squeegee the floor. now i have an empty tap in the bar though. Damn!!

Very sad to see this happened. And the mess!

The 3-piece airlocks have a star-shaped restrictor on the bottom of the center shaft. Definitely cut that off. But sometimes you just need a larger diameter tube. Still amazes me that the bung didn't pop out before the carboy exploded. But beware, these new, Chinese made carboys are not that strong. In some cases the thickness of the glass was less than that of a dime in certain areas.

I went "forward" to using buckets. Glass is only used now for long term aging, like sours.

 

[grrickar]

The 3-piece airlocks have a star-shaped restrictor on the bottom of the center shaft. Definitely cut that off.

My older 3pc ones do not, but my newest one does. Good suggestion!

 

[burninator]

Surprised we haven't yet explored the possibility that there was a phoenix in his carboy.

What kind of yeast were you using, OP?

 

[aprichman]

Sanitized teflon tape on the threads?

The problem has more to do with the way the plastic BMB are manufactured. They use a process called extrusion blow molding to make these. Extrusion blow molding is one of the cheapest processes but using this method creates material distribution problems - specifically problems with the parison formation and the container shape. Basically it's not a very accurate molding technology and any container being produced with this method is likely to have imperfections.

For most containers extrusion blow molding is okay because they are not meant to be used long term and are physically sealed. An example of this would be a plastic gallon milk jug. Even though it's not perfect it's a one time container and has a plastic seal preventing exposure to the atmosphere.

The plastic BMB uses a screw top and plastic "lid" that clamps down. On my plastic BMB the lid is not level and there is no way for me to get it completely flush. In my case, no amount of teflon tape will fix the problem.

I'm not an expert in rigid containers but even the small amount I've learned about them as a food science student makes me shake me head. The plastic BMBs are TERRIBLY designed. Northern Brewer / Midwest Supplies manufactures these things and you can tell whoever was in charge was only concerned about the bottom line. They literally used the cheapest technology available and made a really ****ty product.

So you may be thinking - if this product is so terrible why are they highly reviewed on Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies? People must like these right?

WRONG!

I posted a negative review of the plastic BMB on northern brewer and they never put up my review. I did a little more research and it turns out Northern Brewer & Midwest Supplies don't put up ANY bad reviews of ANY products. Honestly I'm not sure how this isn't illegal. I bought my plastic BMB because I looked at the reviews and saw 95% of them were overwhelmingly positive and even the "negative" reviews had 3 stars. Turns out that is because they simply wont post a review under 3 stars for their products.

I'm not sure if that practice is even legal (I think it's false advertising IMHO) and I was even more surprised since Northern Brewer has a reputation for being a "good online brew shop". I have found this to be 100% false when dealing with them.

I will never, ever buy anything from Northern Brewer / Midwest Supplies again. Their prices are among the most expensive but I thought I was paying a little extra to deal with an honest company that stood behind their products and had good customer service. In my experience they are a dishonest company that refuses to stand behind their product.

Honestly it's not the end of the world that the plastic BMB doesn't seal very well. At the time of purchase this was part of the product description for the plastic BMB:

"Your wort is protected during fermentation by innovative flared-fitting lid construction, creating an airtight seal between the lid plate and top of the fermentor."

They seemed to have removed that part since I made my complaint a few weeks ago. When I emailed a customer service rep he promised they would "make it right" but it looks like they just removed their false product description to cover their own ass.

So yeah, your mileage may vary with the plastic BMB but I regret not just grabbing a couple of fermentation buckets.

 

[GHBWNY]

The problem has more to do with the way the plastic BMB are manufactured. They use a process called extrusion blow molding to make these. Extrusion blow molding is one of the cheapest processes but using this method creates material distribution problems - specifically problems with the parison formation and the container shape. Basically it's not a very accurate molding technology and any container being produced with this method is likely to have imperfections.

For most containers extrusion blow molding is okay because they are not meant to be used long term and are physically sealed. An example of this would be a plastic gallon milk jug. Even though it's not perfect it's a one time container and has a plastic seal preventing exposure to the atmosphere.

The plastic BMB uses a screw top and plastic "lid" that clamps down. On my plastic BMB the lid is not level and there is no way for me to get it completely flush. In my case, no amount of teflon tape will fix the problem.

I'm not an expert in rigid containers but even the small amount I've learned about them as a food science student makes me shake me head. The plastic BMBs are TERRIBLY designed. Northern Brewer / Midwest Supplies manufactures these things and you can tell whoever was in charge was only concerned about the bottom line. They literally used the cheapest technology available and made a really ****ty product.

So you may be thinking - if this product is so terrible why are they highly reviewed on Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies? People must like these right?

WRONG!

I posted a negative review of the plastic BMB on northern brewer and they never put up my review. I did a little more research and it turns out Northern Brewer & Midwest Supplies don't put up ANY bad reviews of ANY products. Honestly I'm not sure how this isn't illegal. I bought my plastic BMB because I looked at the reviews and saw 95% of them were overwhelmingly positive and even the "negative" reviews had 3 stars. Turns out that is because they simply wont post a review under 3 stars for their products.

I'm not sure if that practice is even legal (I think it's false advertising IMHO) and I was even more surprised since Northern Brewer has a reputation for being a "good online brew shop". I have found this to be 100% false when dealing with them.

I will never, ever buy anything from Northern Brewer / Midwest Supplies again. Their prices are among the most expensive but I thought I was paying a little extra to deal with an honest company that stood behind their products and had good customer service. In my experience they are a dishonest company that refuses to stand behind their product.

Honestly it's not the end of the world that the plastic BMB doesn't seal very well. At the time of purchase this was part of the product description for the plastic BMB:

"Your wort is protected during fermentation by innovative flared-fitting lid construction, creating an airtight seal between the lid plate and top of the fermentor."

They seemed to have removed that part since I made my complaint a few weeks ago. When I emailed a customer service rep he promised they would "make it right" but it looks like they just removed their false product description to cover their own ass.

So yeah, your mileage may vary with the plastic BMB but I regret not just grabbing a couple of fermentation buckets.

This is worth considering. My main gripe with my ferm bucket is there's no accommodation for a larger-diameter blowoff, unless I create one that would take a grommet that would accept 1.25" diameter tubing. Until I do something else, my makeshift blowoff is presently a 3/8" tube jammed into the base of a 3-pc airlock. While it's airtight and running free, the bucket lid is still domed to the point where it looks/feels like it wants to let loose. Fortunately, I have a couple days off work so I can keep an eye on it.

 

[aprichman]

This is worth considering. My main gripe with my ferm bucket is there's no accommodation for a larger-diameter blowoff, unless I create one that would take a grommet that would accept a length of 1.25" diameter tubing. Until I do something else, my makeshift blowoff is presently a 3/8" tube jammed into the base of a 3-pc airlock. While it's airtight and running free, the bucket lid is still domed to the point where it looks/feels like it wants to let loose. Fortunately, I have a couple days off work so I can keep an eye on it.

If I had to place my order again I would have gone with a Better Bottle / Bubbler. They are normal carboys but made out of plastic instead of glass.

When I first started I thought I would prefer glass over plastic so I purchased 2 glass carboys. I was wrong - I definitely prefer plastic over glass Plastic carboys are so much lighter and easier to move around with the risk of shattering.

 

[mikegrady]

This was a strong belgian dark ale.
used white labs belgian abbey yeast

 

[mikegrady]

Surprised we haven't yet explored the possibility that there was a phoenix in his carboy.

What kind of yeast were you using, OP?

this was a belgian abbey yeast (white labs)

my floor has radiant heat under most of it. where the heat stops the fermenter stays at 66 and this brew was somewhat dormant at 66, moved it to the heated area and it went up to 72, thats when the fun started.

 

[mikegrady]

DISCLAIMER: I do not, in any way, discount the posts in this thread or the veracity of the OP's claim.

However, setting aside the obvious issues like glass being heavy and slippery when wet, is this a real problem or much ado about nothing? It seems if there was a high degree of risk with fermenting in standard glass carboys then why have they sold (possibly) millions of them and there isn't more substantiated "explosion" claims out there?

I'm not trying to be cynical or "that guy," I'm just trying to determine if I should all of the sudden be more concerned about the 10 glass carboys I have. If it were a real issue it seems the first thing one would learn when they start posting/reading HBT is that glass may blow up instead of NO, YOUR BEER DIDN'T FERMENT IN 48 HOURS.

all good, i appreciate the input and I AM NOT an alarmist by any means. been using that carboy for many years. My post was merely to point out that crazy SH*T can happen. the 3 pc airlock had that little "star" piece on the bottom and it definitely clogged. the bung was in very tight also, but i never expected it would fail to pop under that much pressure (I was wrong!). had i been using a larger blow off tube I am certain nothing like this would have happen. if someone took away from my post that I had suggested the beer had fully fermented in 2 days, they misread the post. the most active fermentation had passed after after 2 days but it was clearly still fermenting and the blow off tube was functioning 6 hours prior to "blast off". I consider it a fluke accident and very happy we were not shooting pool like we normally do till 5:00 AM on Thursday nights. Praise the beer gods!!

 

[burninator]

this was a belgian abbey yeast (white labs)

Interesting. That is not a strain I would generally expect to spawn a phoenix.

 

[RandallFlag]

My post was merely to point out that crazy SH*T can happen. the 3 pc airlock had that little "star" piece on the bottom and it definitely clogged. the bung was in very tight also, but i never expected it would fail to pop under that much pressure (I was wrong!). had i been using a larger blow off tube I am certain nothing like this would have happen.

This makes me feel better and I would tend to agree.

if someone took away from my post that I had suggested the beer had fully fermented in 2 days, they misread the post. the most active fermentation had passed after after 2 days but it was clearly still fermenting and the blow off tube was functioning 6 hours prior to "blast off".

I honestly wasn't referring to you in my all caps thing about beer fermenting in two days. I was mentioning it because that is one of the most commonly asked questions in the "Beginners" forum and the answer is always "No and please don't try to bottle it." And I was trying to state (apparently poorly) that if exploding carboys were a common thing then it would perhaps be mentioned as often as these magical 2 day fermentations that beginers/noobs refer to...as I used to do when I first started. So the FAQ would look like this:

1. Is my beer finished after 2 days? No
2. Should I secondary? Depends
3. Will my carboy explode? Every d4mn time.
4. Must I now say "BOOM" every time I add hops? If you respect the beer gods, then yes. See link below.
Greatest HBT Thread Like Ever

 

[Zepth]

Interesting. That is not a strain I would generally expect to spawn a phoenix.

Are you mad? That's the perfect strain for having a case of UPS. Unexpected Phoenix Syndrome.

"Around 1252, the monastery was destroyed by a fire; the rebuilding took around 100 years.
...
During the 15th and 16th centuries, ... In 1637, during the Thirty Years' War, the abbey was pillaged and burnt by French mercenaries.
...
In 1793, during the French Revolution, the abbey was completely burnt down by French forces...
under the direction of the Trappist monk Marie-Albert van der Cruyssen, the new monastery was constructed, and in 1935 Orval regained the rank of abbey. On 8 September 1948, the new church was consecrated.

The ruins of the medieval buildings remain on the site and are available to view."

Seriously, if that isn't begging for a phoenix I don't know what is.
wikipedia source

 

[Hello]

Not sure duct tape would stand up to constant contact with water/detergent. Seems like the better solution would be a heavy nylon zip-up carboy jacket. If the glass exploded, it would be contained and the jacket could be de-glassed and washed.

Very good point indeed.

 

[drgoodbrew]

after having a carboy explode because it was clogged (blueberry mead where a blueberry clogged the airlock) and having plastic buckets pop their lids and ferm locks) here are my thoughts:

1) did you lick the floor?

2) i ALWAYS use plastic buckets for primary fermentation.

2.5) if i'm fermenting a big beer, i split the batch between 2 buckets. after major fermentation subsides, i combine them in one bucket for a couple of weeks, then rack to secondary to settle and clear.

trial and error. bummer your beer blew like that.

 

[grrickar]

Buy some 17 gallon 'rubbermaid' style tubs and put the carboys in those. If they pop, you contain the mess at least. I use them for washing gear, and for making an icewater bath to pump through my immersion chiller. They are also great for filling with ice and soda/beer in the summer on the patio.

 

[GHBWNY]

this was a belgian abbey yeast (white labs)

my floor has radiant heat under most of it. where the heat stops the fermenter stays at 66 and this brew was somewhat dormant at 66, moved it to the heated area and it went up to 72, thats when the fun started.

I'm no physicist, but I wonder if setting a 66-degree 5 gal. glass vessel of pressurized beer on a 72-degree heated surface may have had *something* to do with this event. Is this asking glass to adapt under conditions beyond its capabilities, like when someone pours warm water on a frozen windshield?

 

[xjvhj]

i love my carboys, but i'm afraid of em. i'm thinking about plastic too.

 

[Kmeister]

Ive been fermenting in glass for the better part of six years and never had a problem. Like stated before, always use a 1.25" blow off tube at least for the first few days and keep an eye on the airlock to ensure that it isnt clogging up. I also only use 6.5 gallon carboys for 5 gallon batches to ensure that there is optimal room between the krauesen and mouth of the carboy.

 

[grrickar]

Here's my theory to go along with the temp change on the glass.

Even putting a carboy down gently on the bare concrete of my unfinished basement, it gives a good thunk due to the weight. I bought a carboy carrier and now the straps cushion that.

How many 'thunks' would it take to weaken the glass, and then temp change+pressure hits against already weakened glass and it simply pops...

I have had bottles carbonate, be opened and consumed, and only after realize there are spidery cracks in the glass. The next beer in that bottle would have likely become a bottle bomb even if it were properly carbonated due to the weakened state of the glass.

 

[mikegrady]

after having a carboy explode because it was clogged (blueberry mead where a blueberry clogged the airlock) and having plastic buckets pop their lids and ferm locks) here are my thoughts:

1) did you lick the floor?

2) i ALWAYS use plastic buckets for primary fermentation.

2.5) if i'm fermenting a big beer, i split the batch between 2 buckets. after major fermentation subsides, i combine them in one bucket for a couple of weeks, then rack to secondary to settle and clear.

trial and error. bummer your beer blew like that.

if there wasn't so much glass on the floor I may have been tempted to pull out the straws at least!! yep. gonna switch things up a bit in that department.

 

[Talgrath]

A switch to plastic may be in order...

 

[klaggy]

I have a bucket fermentation and has a tight lid... Takes some effort to get it off... The bubbler got clogged and found the lid blew of and sprayed the interior of the ferm fridge. This was also nearing the end of primary as well... I most deff worry about glass carboys.. Not so much for this.. But yes another worry then. But I worry of dropping it or set it too hard on the ground.

 

[shortyz]

rofl, oh man im killing myself laughing.