Has anyone ever used the Reverse Osmosis water you can get from the Glacier Water dispensing machines for brewing? I was wondering what the ph of that water was. Does it just depend on the water source they get it from, or do they adjust for ph?
Glacier Water Dispenser
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If it's really RO water, then that's fine. The pH doesn't matter at all, as it's the buffering capacity of the water that does. The alkalinity of the water is important, as in the bicarbonate concentration impacts the pH of the mash.
RO water has very low alkalinity and is preferred for brewing by many.
All RO water users should have their own TDS meter to check the performance of the RO machine whether its their machine or a vending machine. RO machines need maintenance eventually and a TDS reading is your way of assessing the machine's health and performance.
32Brew
Active Member
Be wary of these machines because they're not really RO water machines. I was having problems with water chemistry, here in the Texas Hill Country, so I started buying the Glacier water. I had problems with that water too, so I called the company. I spoke with a lady that said they measure total dissolved solids, and keep the filter in place until it reached that limit (which she wouldn't reveal.) basically, they base the limit on the starting water profile. So, if you get a machine with a fresh filter, you will get close to RO water, but as the machine is used and the TDS goes up, you will be in uncharted territory. Based on my personal experience, the Glacier machine with a clogged/used filter will be close to the source water and therefore not worth using/buying. The catch is you won't know where the filters are on its lifespan either. In short, if you have hard water and are thinking of using a Glacier machine, it probably won't be a reliable source of water.
OP
OP
MTBbrewer
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I ended up getting water from a PRIMO water machine which is associated with Culligan. It is probably the same thing, but the machine is newly installed. If I get one of those TDS meters and check it every time would that be a sufficient test to make sure it is still working? If the meter works what would be a TDS range I would want to see?
I recommend that the TDS reading should be under 20 ppm in most cases. When I changed out my membrane last year, the reading rose into the teens. But it has now stabilized at around 6 ppm.
LovesIPA
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I use Glacier water vending machines for all my IPAs and light beers. I add the necessary amounts of MgSO4 and CaSO4 to the mash water as per the Palmer book. So far so good.
GotPushrods
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32Brew said:
This isn't some scam, it's just how RO works. The machine closest to me takes in (on average) 500 TDS water. The product is 4 TDS (99% rejection) and will rise over the course of months to about 8 TDS (98% rejection). About this time, they will service the machine and the cycle starts over.
Any water being forced through an RO membrane is RO water, so I'm not really sure what you are claiming without knowing the TDS of the water you're getting from that machine. It's not "close to" RO water. It is RO water. It might be close to DI water, which is exactly what RO water is, and is totally acceptable.
Ramitt
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i used water from a glacier for a while and was still getting chlormines in the water it would seem. Several batches of bandaid beer. It may just be that machine, but I don't trust them much now.
32Brew
Active Member
I am not claimng there if some sort of scam, don't get me wrong. What I saying is it is unknown where in the lifespan the filter is. As I mentioned about the machine near me, it was not giving me the results I was looking for. I was looking for "close to DI" water (sorry for using the term incorrectly last time,) which my machine was not getting me I base this on the flavor of the lighter beer i brewed. My source water is close to 500 TDS too, and I know the flavor all too well of high bicarbonate in beer. I didn't use a TDS meter, but I can tell that the flavor of bicarbonate was all over the spectrum. It wasn't reliable enough for me to continue to use the machine. It was well above "close to DI" water
32Brew
Active Member
This is paraphrased from the notes I took from the Glacier rep I spoke with, who said the filter is that the rejection rate of bicarbonates starts at about 98%, but it degrades very quickly, because of the hard water. It would be reasonable to say that the machines are averaging a 50% rejection rate because of the hard water before the filter is changed.
I just got a TDS meter to test my local glacier vending machine water quality before using it to brew. Tap water here in el paso is 330ppm, nestle pure life bottled water tested at 60ppm, distilled water tests at 0 (calibration verification) and the glacier vending machine water tested at 9ppm.
dschiller22
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But just to be clear, if you brew with RO you should add in minerals like LovesIPA points out (ref Palmer's book). When I brought this topic up with a few pro brewers, they said that water pH is not that critical for most beers and you should just brew with tap water to get good mineral content. But obviously there are chapters of books and many HBT posts that would claim otherwise.
It all depends on the mineral content of tap water. In MD my water was perfect for browns and darker, but light beers needed softening. Here in el paso there is a lot of sodium in the water and iron, so ro is almost mandatory. And yes water pH is not that important, its all about mash pH.
Having worked with pro brewers from around the world, I'm constantly amazed at the lack of knowledge on the subject of water that most have. But, I can't blame them since knowledge in this topic only recently expanded. They were all brought up with myths and hearsay.
Good mineral content in the water is not needed for the fermentation to progress normally. Malt provides all the minerals the yeast need for fermentation. Even when starting with distilled water.
But there are several ions that can be beneficial to add. The first and most important is the hydronium ion (H+ with H20) since it neutralizes alkalinity and helps reduce mash pH which is needed for most brewing. The second would be the calcium ion since it helps with several reactions and precipitates oxalate. It also helps yeast flocculate at the end of fermentation and that is very helpful in ale brewing. Beyond those two ions, the rest of mineral additions are generally for flavor and can be added as desired by the brewer. But they aren't needed by the yeast.
Two trace ions needed for the yeast are copper and zinc. Unfortunately you can't always rely on tap water to provide them, so you may still have to add them for a good ferment. Just be aware that very low concentrations are required for the yeast. Zinc can leave a metallic flavor is added in excess, but copper is easily removed from the beer by yeast.
So, the tap water myth is another one that needs to pass into the rubbish bin.
TEWNCfarms
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How much was that exactly? The amounts?
Have you used a BWT Water Filtration System??? I just bought an ECM Synchronika and do not want to burn out the boilers due to hard water. Your thread on ppm and store water machines is leading me to move away from this type of water purchasing.
