GFCI Tripping Help

[Hokie_Brewer]

This is the only documentation I have of the heater




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[Hokie_Brewer]

How about a close up of the ssr with the plastic cover off.

As requested




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[wbarber69]

In your configuration the 5000watt element becomes a 5300watt element. But the draw is still way less than 40amps so all that looks fine. As long as it's wired up in parallel like it looks like it is. I wonder what size wire is in the wall behind the dryer plug. If it can't handle the heat it could give the gfi some problems. But your still way under 30 amps so it shouldn't matter. Unless the element is faulty. Or something else. Perhaps it's something to do with the fact that when you achieve proper temperature the pid begins cycling the element and that is causing the trip. Could be a bad pid. But it would have to be really bad to make the whole thing trip like that.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I dont think it has to do with the PID, because I tried it with both automatic mode and manual mode (20% and 60% manual power) and had the same problem with any of those options.

Do you think it has anything to do with the coils being so close together on the actual element? The GFCI would trip as soon as bubbles started to appear between those coils

 

[wbarber69]

You could bypass the ssr. Go contactor to element directly. And switch the element on. Let the pid think it's doing the work when it's not controlling the element at all. See if it gets up to boil and then see if it will trip. It will continue to get hotter and hotter so you'll have to determine when the test is over and shut it down. If it doesn't trip then it's either the ssr or pid causing the trip.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

yeah, good idea. i will have to try that at some point this week

 

[wbarber69]

If it does trip then try again with the ssr dc contacts removed from the pid. And try again. If it still trips. Then disconnect the pid(No more temp reading so you might need to use a thermometer or watch for a boil.). If it still trips without the pid and ssr connected then it's got something to do with the element.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

yep, sounds like a plan. i will get on that and post back later.

anyone else reading this conversation see something we missed??

 

[P-J]

??? Vey puzzling indeed.
How about when it come to the high temp (about when the GFCI trips) some liquid might have leaked through the element mounting seals into the element connection chamber. It wouldn't take much water to give it a GFCI trip to ground path.

Ok... Ok... I'm grabbing at straws too. But maybe worth a check anyway.

P-J

 

[wbarber69]

I wonder if that element can handle the fast switching we normally use on the camcos and the like. It might be something as simple as adjusting the on/off timing in the pid. But who knows.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

??? Vey puzzling indeed.
How about when it come to the high temp (about when the GFCI trips) some liquid might have leaked through the element mounting seals into the element connection chamber. It wouldn't take much water to give it a GFCI trip to ground path.

Ok... Ok... I'm grabbing at straws too. But maybe worth a check anyway.

P-J

Yes, i thought that as well. I checked after the first set of trips during my brew day and no moisture in the enclosure. Then i tested the next day with water, tripped the GFCI, and still no moisture...

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I wonder if that element can handle the fast switching we normally use on the camcos and the like. It might be something as simple as adjusting the on/off timing in the pid. But who knows.

it's set to 2 seconds as of now - i can try to increase that as well

 

[wbarber69]

Since you say it only happens at boil it makes me think it's happening when the ssr goes from on all the time to suddenly switching on and off. And in duty cycle mode it's more of a pwm type of scenario. What your actually doing is switching on and off so fast that the times on as opposed to off determine the duty cycle 80% means it's on for 80% more cycles than its off. Where with an analog manual control you are actually determining the voltage by resistance so an 80% means that your passing 80% of your potential voltage.

 

[P-J]

But. The GFCI will only trip under 2 conditions:
When there is a power overload beyond the amp range of the breaker (this in not happening).
And when there is a milliamp leakage current from either hot OR the neutral to equipment ground.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Since you say it only happens at boil it makes me think it's happening when the ssr goes from on all the time to suddenly switching on and off. And in duty cycle mode it's more of a pwm type of scenario. What your actually doing is switching on and off so fast that the times on as opposed to off determine the duty cycle 80% means it's on for 80% more cycles than its off. Where with an analog manual control you are actually determining the voltage by resistance so an 80% means that your passing 80% of your potential voltage.

Can't be this. In manual mode at 60% it was cycling the same rate from 70 degs up to 200 deg just fine, then trips the breaker as it approaches boiling temp





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[Hokie_Brewer]

But. The GFCI will only trip under 2 conditions:
When there is a power overload beyond the amp range of the breaker (this in not happening).
And when there is a milliamp leakage current from either hot OR the neutral to equipment ground.

So, any chance the element itself is leaking current to the pot (which is grounded) when the boil is starting?

 

[wbarber69]

But. The GFCI will only trip under 2 conditions:

When there is a power overload beyond the amp range of the breaker (this in not happening).

And when there is a milliamp leakage current from either hot OR the neutral to equipment ground.

It could under very certain circumstances happen if the spa panel is pulling more voltage over the dryer plug than can be sent back to earth. But I don't think that's the problem. There could be a short in the pid. Even though your not using the alarm function or the relays. It might be something internally that's grounding out. What is your alarms set to. If they are set to go off at 212 or close to it. Try setting them all the way up to 999. That will eliminate one more mechanical device that could be causing issues.