GFCI Tripping Help

[Hokie_Brewer]

Working on my first electric brew session and ran into a hiccup and need some help.

I am running a 240V control panel with an Auber PID, single 5000W heating element and a 120V pump outlet. I am running off my 3-wire dryer outlet to a 50A GFCI (spa panel) to the control panel. I had an electrician look over all my wiring and connections prior to the brew day and everything 'passed inspection'.

I mashed in fine, was able to maintain mash temps and mashout all completely fine. Then i switched the PID to manual to start the boil. As soon as it reached around 205*F or so, the GFCI tripped. Reset the breaker and same thing happened again. It was only tripping as soon as the boil started to go and I could hear it start to boil. I can't think of what would be tripping the GFCI only during the boil and not any other time?

I also checked with my multimeter and the pot is properly grounded to the element housing and power cord. Any help would be appreciated

 

[neild5]

How is your element wired?

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

This is my element. 2 hot wires into the junction box mounted on the bottom of the kettle. Ground is wired to the enclosure and the screws holding the element tight to the kettle provide the ground from kettle to junction box.

 

[MDHarris]

Check for moisture in the junction box covering the element wiring. Can you show a picture of how the control panel is wired? Also a picture of how the spa panel is wired? If not moisture then the next thing I think of is maybe your alarm wire from your pid. Is your alarm set to boil temperature? Is the breaker tripping when the wort gets to alarm temperature?

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Here's the wiring of my panel and my element. Nothing seems to have had any moisture in it or melting from too hot of temperatures. The alarm terminals on my PID are not used in any wiring. Any ideas?








Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[P-J]

It is really difficult to see and read this thread since your last post.

I suggest that, whenever you post multiple images, you include a new line
(carrage return) before and after ever image. As it is now, it is displaying
them 3 wide.

Very difficult to see and read.

P-J

 

[Brumateur]

I can't see clearly but it looks like insulation on black wire is damaged. Could you post more detailed picture?

 

[wbarber69]

I can't see clearly but it looks like insulation on black wire is damaged. Could you post more detailed picture?

That just looks like the cardboard wire rope in the extension cord. Is there any copper exposed in that white wire coming into the element housing. If you are in fact running a 50amp gfci spa panel then any contact with the inside if the box would cause a trip. Also are you running the dryer while trying to boil?

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

It is really difficult to see and read this thread since your last post.



I suggest that, whenever you post multiple images, you include a new line

(carrage return) before and after ever image. As it is now, it is displaying

them 3 wide.



Very difficult to see and read.



P-J

Tried to fix this, hope it's better now. Hard to do on your phone...





Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I can't see clearly but it looks like insulation on black wire is damaged. Could you post more detailed picture?

No damage to the black insulation, it's just the cardboard "spacer" in the cable. White wire is an unneeded wire in the cable which is completely covered in electrical tape (no copper exposed)


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

That just looks like the cardboard wire rope in the extension cord. Is there any copper exposed in that white wire coming into the element housing. If you are in fact running a 50amp gfci spa panel then any contact with the inside if the box would cause a trip. Also are you running the dryer while trying to boil?

No contact with the box. Dryer is unplugged during the boil



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Does anyone think that there could be a short due to the small space between the element "tubes" when boiling? I ran another test today with only water and the same thing happened as soon as bubbles started to form off the element right before boiling temps


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wbarber69]

I'm see that one switch is for the pump. What does the other one do?

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Switch with blue light is for the pump (120V outlet) and the switch with the red light runs the contactor for the heater.

 

[wbarber69]

Is the contactor switch a 2 position or 3 position switch

 

[wbarber69]

Do you have a wire diagram?

 

[wbarber69]

I need more detail on the wiring here. For some reason I think you may be switching the contactor relay improperly. But I can't trace all the wires to be sure.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Do you have a wire diagram?

This is the basic diagram I followed. I added an emergency stop to cut off the contactor coil and the pump circuit, but the PID remains powered.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I need more detail on the wiring here. For some reason I think you may be switching the contactor relay improperly. But I can't trace all the wires to be sure.

I had an electrician have a look at my wiring internally and he verified it is correct. I really think it's an error at the heating element or kettle. I would think that if the wiring of the panel is incorrect, it would not run for pre-boil temperatures.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

I need more detail on the wiring here. For some reason I think you may be switching the contactor relay improperly. But I can't trace all the wires to be sure.

I think one thing that may be throwing you off: i have the red light wired to the output side of the contactor. Therefore, when the contactor is live, the red light is on (not necessarily when the PID is turning on the element).

 

[wbarber69]

No I think maybe you have a no contact switch where you should have a nc but I need to see the wire unbundled or see how the switch operates in use to tell.

 

[wbarber69]

I think one thing that may be throwing you off: i have the red light wired to the output side of the contactor. Therefore, when the contactor is live, the red light is on (not necessarily when the PID is turning on the element).

There are 2 wires coming into the switch with 2 control wires going out to the contactor. But they are both on a no switch. Depending on how your telemanique switch functions it will either throw them both at the same time or only throw one at a time. Depending on which version you bought. They all look the same. You may not be tripping your contactor properly and it is causing the fault.

 

[wbarber69]

If u switch it to the on position. Which one of the little green arrows stick out of the switch. Or do both if them.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

The contactor is functioning properly because the heating element is working correctly at all temps below ~200F. The blocks on the switches are NC blocks, except for the ones on the E Stop which are NO.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wbarber69]

You got that backwards

 

[wbarber69]

Still if the switch you bought isn't the one that you need the contactor will trigger but not properly. And some heating elements will run on half a leg.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

You're right. Switches are NO blocks and the e stop is NC


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wbarber69]

2 position switch with switch turned to left position


In right position


3 position in left position


Middle position


Right position



I'm just trying to help. I can't see anything else that jumps out as not right. It may be a problem with the dryer plug end or something in the spa panel but I wanted to start in the control panel and rule that out first.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Yeah, I know and i really appreciate it. The switches are definitely 2 way switches, each with 2 NO blocks on it. WHen the switch goes to the right, both little green things go out

 

[wbarber69]

Good then that should be good.

 

[wbarber69]

Are you running the pump while boiling?

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

That was my first thought as well - I unhooked the pump completely the first time I tripped the GFCI and tested again. Same issue

 

[wbarber69]

Show me how your connecting your controls to your dryer plug.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

This is the spa panel wiring. I have an L14-30 receptacle mounted to the side of the spa panel enclosure. 3 wire dryer cord to the dryer receptacle

 

[wbarber69]

Yeah that's a nice diagram but can you show what yours actually looks like. I follow "electricians" around all the time that "know what they are doing." It might have passed his inspection. But he may not be looking at it as a whole.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Here's the spa panel gfci








Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

Here are a couple more of the panel wiring



Here's the switches in the right position





Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wbarber69]

I'm stumped everything looks right. I suppose the wiring comes in from a 30amp dryer plug since it's 3 pole. There could be issues on that side but that's the last place to check. I've never come across this type of element what brand is it so I can look at the specs.

 

[wbarber69]

How about a close up of the ssr with the plastic cover off.

 

[Hokie_Brewer]

honestly, i'm not sure. My electrician family friend had this element (which is a steam table element) form a job he was working on and i decided to use it. I liked the bottom mount because it provides a very solid seal on the flat bottom of my pot. This is the closest I came to finding the similar element:

http://www.lonestarrestaurantsupply.com/immersed-5000-watts-heating-element-208v