GFCI Question: Breaker vs Spa Panel for new install.

[lschiavo]

A circuit breaker IS essentially a contactor. A mechanically held contactor that is opened either mechanically, thermally or electrically.

The electrically held contactors we are using in e-stop circuits require power to the coil to close and hold the contacts that supply the main power to the control panel. The GFI shunt method requires the lack of a leakage current to ground to maintain main power at the control panel. To interrupt main power to the panel, both systems require a switch and the contactor device to function properly

They seem very similar but the fundamental difference is that the contactor is electrically held and the breaker is mechanically held. Removing power from the coil of a contactor and having it return to it's normal open state is just more reliable than the inner workings of a GFCI device. At least that's my mumblings on the topic...

 

[lschiavo]

For whoever mentioned using the breaker from a spa disconnect in their feeder panel. I highly advise you to check the specs of the device you think is a circuit breaker. All the ones I've come across in the field (I'm a service electrician) were solely gfci protected disconnect switches. not overcurrent protection devices. This is why they cost less than a real circuit breaker. If you bucked phases or shorted line to neutral, or simply overloaded the circuit ... Nothing would trip.

I have seen AC disconnects like that with no current rating printed on the breaker handle. I believe if a number is printed, it is an overcurrent device. But, that is a good thing to watch for.

 

[alien]

For whoever mentioned using the breaker from a spa disconnect in their feeder panel. I highly advise you to check the specs of the device you think is a circuit breaker. All the ones I've come across in the field (I'm a service electrician) were solely gfci protected disconnect switches. not overcurrent protection devices. This is why they cost less than a real circuit breaker. If you bucked phases or shorted line to neutral, or simply overloaded the circuit ... Nothing would trip.

Thanks for the warning, I'll take your word on that... better go back and check.

Edit: Well I have just gone down and checked, and it says on it "circuit breaker with GFCI protection" with 50 on the switch, and it looks like a regular circuit breaker. I don't know whether what I have is a typical spa panel, but FWIW it is Midwest model # UG412RMW250P, and their literature states that it "Includes both overcurrent and ground fault protection". There may be a device number on the breaker that I can look up to make sure, I'll have another look later.

 

[grandequeso]

If it says that it has overcurrent protection it is safe to use it in a panel.

 

[jeffmeh]

P-J, please understand that I meant no disrespect whatsoever, and I do appreciate all that you do to help others on here with their builds. I did sincerely want to understand the logic behind the objections to this design feature. Personally, I do not object to the feature, but would caution those using it that they should test their GFCIs frequently, given what I have learned about failure rates.