Getting the FG really low

[deviousalex]

I can't seem to get any FG below 1.015. I generally ferment at the higher range for ales (74F or so). I already make a yeast starter and wait ample time for fermentation, especially in the secondary.
Anyone got any tips on getting it really low? I am trying to get my FG to below 1.01. Another thing I was thinking of trying is aeration after the boil. Does anyone have a metric on how much that will help?

 

[frazier]

Are you doing All Grain, Partial Mash, or Extract? People who can give advice will want to know. Some recipe details including O.G. would be helpful also.

 

[deviousalex]

Extract with about 3 points of grain. I've just noticed this in general for all my beers. Here is my last recipe:
Yeast starter -
1/2 lb Light DME boiled into 1.5 L water
1 vile White Labs Dry English Ale Yeast (WLP007)
Fermented for two days

Malts -
1.5 lb Rahr 2-row
1.5 lb British Pale
1 lb Crystal 40

1 tbsp Burton Water Salts
Malts Steeped for 45 minutes up to 170 F

7 lb Light DME @ 75 minutes
2 oz Centennial @ 75 minutes
2 oz Cascade @ 75 minutes
2 oz Armarillo @ 15 minutes
1 tsp Irish Moss @ 15 minutes
1 tsp Fermaid K @ 15 minutes
5 drops foam control before pitching
1/2 oz Kent Goldings for dry-hopping between fermentations

Original Gravity - 1.060
Original Yield - 6 gallons
Fermentation temperature - between 64-73 F
Final Gravity - 1.015
ABV - 6.25% (in theory)

 

[storunner13]

Late extract additions might help. It reduces the potential for caramelization and helped me dry out my extract beers a bit. But for a 1.060 OG 1.015 isn't too bad. I know you used the WLP007, which could get to 80% attenuation, but if the beer tastes good (not sweet), then perhaps it's for the best.

 

[ajf]

To start with, you have 3 lbs base malt in that recipe. That needs to be mashed in the 150's rather than steeped at ~170.
Then you added 1 lb crystal. This is probably not a good idea if you want a low FG as crystal is not very fermentable.
The best way to get a low FG is to start with a low OG.
I don't think that trying to get a FG < 1.010 when starting with an OG of 1.060 is going to produce a balanced beer.

-a.

 

[deviousalex]

Isn't the point of boiling the DME in order to break down the sugars to increase ferment-ability? And when you say late addition, how late are we talking? With 20 minutes left or so?

From what I have read a lot of IPAs use Crystal malt and this one is well balanced, it just tastes sweeter than all the commercial IPAs I try.

 

[mitch171]

Many commercial IPA's will not have a FG below 1.010. The hops and ABV make it taste dry.

I have heard that low FGs are less possible with extract. With all grain you can control the mash temps which will effect the fermentability of the wort. I am guessing much of your points left on your FG are due to the crystal malt as well.

 

[jsullivan02130]

Your recipe issues are addressed above. You should also make a starter to pitch plenty of healthy yeast. You should aerate your wort after chilling to give the yeast enough oxygen. You should increase the temperature a few degrees per day as fermentation starts to slow. And you can rouse the yeast toward the end of fermentation to keep them from flocc'ing out.

But I think your recipe is the main problem.

When you say, "From what I have read a lot of IPAs use Crystal malt and this one is well balanced, it just tastes sweeter than all the commercial IPAs I try," that makes no sense. If it is too sweet it is not well balanced. As mentioned, you should cut down the crystal if you want to dry out the beer, and perhaps add some simple sugar in its place.

 

[ajf]

The boil does a lot of things (extracting bitterness from the hops, adjusting the pH, precipitating proteins etc), but increasing fermentability is not one of them. That is determined during the production of the extract.
I would agree with using some crystal in an IPA. Although it will increase the FG somewhat, it will help to balance the beer. My point was that you should not try to reduce the FG below 1.010. In fact, that would be out of style according to http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style14.php#1b.
If you want to reduce the sweetness, you could reduce the amount of crystal by 4 - 8 oz, and if you want a deeper color, you could use a darker crystal. That would still produce a balanced beer with a slightly lower FG and a bit less sweetness.

-a.

 

[mitch171]

Another place to look would be to up your IBU. I just made a 10 gal batch with 5 lb of crystal malt, but the IBU is 74. My FG is 1.012, this was an AG batch.

 

[david_42]

Ditto on doing this as a mini-mash. If you mash around 150F, that will maximize the fermentability of the grains' contribution. Can't do anything about the extract.

 

[pacebrew]

I like my IPA's to be relatively dry. And im using a California Ale yeast starter. We use all pale 2 row, some cara pils, and a healthy dose of corn sugar in the boil. We then oxygenate the wort with pure 02, and im able to get the beer to dry out to about 1.007.

dry Extract has already been mashed, we could NEVER get our extract beers dry. You need to mash your own grain in order to do it. the beer im drinking right now is very good, very dry and i really enjoy my beers this way.

 

[dantodd]

You might also try a different brand of extract, some are more fermentable than others. I would definitely try dry if you are using liquid as they seem to dry out better too. As others have said you need to mash the malt at 150-ish for 45 minutes to make sure you are extracting nice fermentable sugars. Just heat your brewpot up to 150 or 152 and then put your grains in a bag and let them soak for 40 minutes before you turn up the heat. When you get to a boil add half of your extract and start your hopping.

15 or so minutes before you are done boiling add the other half of your extract. Make sure to stop the clock and take the pot off boil when adding your late extract as it will make the dry extract go all over the place if you put in into a boiling pot. If you add liquid to a boiling pot there is a good chance it will sink to the bottom and then scorch before it gets dissolved. So turn off the flame until you have your extract dissolved.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

I'm might get eaten up for making this comment but here I go ..................

Sweetness, high F.G., beer not tasting like commercial beers you are trying to imitate ...... I had all these symptoms with all of my 6 or so extract batches. My first all-grain was 10x better than all my previous extract batches. I'm not praising all-grain or bashing extract brewing but just simply saying that I had similar issues when brewing extract beers. Haven't noticed these things in my all-grain brews. Something to consider if you're at your wits end and maybe slightly frustrated (i was).

 

[pacebrew]

yea, thats true. Extract will only go so far. Our beer quality came up once we went to allgrain, however, it does raise the possibility of a bad batch. Sure you can use extract, however, you will never have the control you want in your beers simply because it was someone else mashing the grain.

 

[deviousalex]

Does anyone have any data on how much oxygenating the beer will help?

 

[pacebrew]

it helps the yeast propogate. i generally do about 30 seconds of straight o2. apparently studies have been done showing that basic aeration(shaking( is just as good as 02, but regular o2 os easier.

 

[deviousalex]

How do you do 30 seconds of straight o2? The solutions I have seen are just regular air and you have to do it for at least 30 mins.

 

[dantodd]

Does anyone have any data on how much oxygenating the beer will help?

You certainly can over oxygenate if you use pure O2, it is hard or impossible to do so with room air. It will help create a more vigorous fermentation but unless your problem is that the yeast are starting to flocculate before finishing the fermentable sugars it probably won't help your FG issues. As PacMan suggested AG is the ultimate answer to controlling fermentability.

 

[pacebrew]

you get an aeration stone, and an o cylinder from homedepot. I don't turn the valve to full blast, just low enough to see it coming up and get some good 02 in there. the wort gravity will determine how much o2 it needs. But im using the super picky 565, with start and o2, in one week we are in low 20's, from a starting gravity much to high to be a saison... lol

so i think it definitely helps. But to each his own, they say the shaking method works well also.